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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  October 2010, Week 4

CONLANG October 2010, Week 4

Subject:

Re: LLL idea

From:

Maxime Papillon <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:28:30 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)



> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 15:31:01 +0100
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: LLL idea
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Eugene Oh, On 22/10/2010 18:17:
> > 2010/10/22 And Rosta<[log in to unmask]>
> >> IMO English 'sp,st,sk' clusters are actually /sb,sd,sg/, so if the /s/ were
> >> lost, you'd end up with /b,d,g/.
> >>
> > I'm interested in this analysis. Tell us more?
>
> The default obstruent 'sonants' are /b, d, g, v, ð, z/. Each has a 'sharp' version, /b♯, d♯, g♯, v♯, D♯, z♯/, or (notationally equivalent) /p, t, k, f, θ, s/. In any cluster of obstruents, either none is sharp or only the first is sharp. 'St' is /sd/: the obvious alternative analyses to 'st' being /sd/ are (i) /st/ and (ii) /zd/ (or with archiphonemes, /ST/, amounting to much the same analysis). Word-initially, grounds for choosing between /sd/ and /zd/ are meagre, but elsewhere, e.g. in _east_, it is clearly /sd/, not /zd/, because the sharp /s/ triggers prefortis clipping, and there is a contrast with /zd/ (cf _eased_). Arguments against /st/ are as follows. 'Onset' /p,t,k/ are aspirated, but you don't get aspirated [p_h, t_h, k_h] following an obstruent. 'Coda' /t/ is realized [?] in many accents, but you don't get [?] following an obstruent. And _mist_ and _missed_ (_rift_ and _riffed_, etc etc) are homophonous, which is to be expected if they are /misd/ an
> d /mis+d/, where /+d/ is the _ed_ suffix.
>
> --And.

Hi,
Maybe it's me, but I don't see what is the advantage of this description over the down to earth "/t/ is realized as |t| after /s/ and as |t_h| elsewhere" kind. Is it more comprehensive, or does it provide a description of English phonotactics at a lesser algorithmic entropy? To me, it seems to be merely an alternative -perhaps as valid, but surely more difficult- description of the same thing, with no advantage over the traditional description that I can see.
(Of course, I'd accept a link or a reference for an answer if it's too much to fit in an email.)
Maxime.

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