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AUXLANG Home

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AUXLANG  December 2010, Week 2

AUXLANG December 2010, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Esperanto/Mondlango continuance, change, and acceptance

From:

Lang Newb <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:07:01 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (101 lines)

> [Dave]
> Date:	Mon, 13 Dec 2010 20:24:10 +0900

[regarding Idiom Neutral]

> IN is by far the easiest language
> for the non-Western world, and I have a much easier time explaining it
> than Occidental. On the other hand, Occidental is just really
> comfortable and easy to read for anyone familiar with one of its
> source languages. I would recommend going with Occidental right now,
> unless
> 
> unless!
> 
> some three or four or five people are interested in tweaking IN
> together. I could probably put in enough time for that. It would be
> one of those projects where you allocate a certain number of months to
> look at it, and then pledge to leave it stable for two or three or so
> years after it's done to avoid any further tinkering.

I'm willing to put time into it. I'm definitely willing to help and learn
Idiom Neutral. How much help I can be depends on the level of knowledge
required.

> As I wrote on Page F30 yesterday some of the tweaks would be:
> 
> - Not requiring adjectives to come after the noun.

I agree.

> - Germanic (and also Finnish, Turkic, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, etc.
> etc.) genitive in addition to the Romance 'de'. It should probably be
> a suffix, kind of like the Afrikaans 'se'.

I went looking for this. I found a reference to the "his genitive". Is that
what you mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_genitive
"In dialects of German, equivalent constructions like dem Mann sein Haus
("the man-dative his house" instead of genitive case: das Haus des Mannes,
or des Mannes Haus, which is archaic) are found."
I found that page by looking for Afrikaans se.
Seems maybe this is where the "'s" came from in English! Well golly.

> - Gender-neutral pronoun for he/she. Not for PC reasons but because it
> makes translating from Finnish/Turkish/etc. that much easier. Even
> English too where the awkward 'he or she' is used all the time, or the
> now somewhat archaic sounding 'one'.

I agree, and in addition to a gender-neutral pronoun I'd like for you to
consider a strictly masculine pronoun too such as ilo, in addition to the
existing male-or-unspecified il so that il remains available for translating
from languages where the male or unspecified pronoun is common, and may be
represented without interpretation.

> I don't think any of the homonyms need tweaking.

Sounds good.

> Anyway, in the meantime (until I somehow find a way to give IN a good
> look-over and a few tweaks) I would recommend either Occidental or
> Ido.

I'll start with IN and get myself more familiar with things in case I can be
of some help. My brain needs to start making room for some language
flexibility, regardless of the language.

> If you can work your way through it I would recommend reading the
> Kompleta Gramatiko Detaloza since that's where all your questions
> about Ido in real usage will be answered.

Ok thank you for the ref.

> One BIG plus for Ido is that the world's Esperantists already
> understand a good deal of it, and Ido is actually the only IAL out
> there that is based on the premise that Esperanto is *almost* good
> enough.

That's a plus for sure.

> The two sides don't seem to dislike each other much anymore
> from what I can tell, and if one day Ido acquired a few hundred
> thousand speakers there would be a huge number of Esperantists that
> would certainly begin using it just for fun. Many Esperantists write
> that they have no problem with Ido, they just don't find many places
> to use it and so Esperanto is their preferred option as a language you
> can actually use to do things. So Ido is the only one that is closely
> related to a language spoken by a group of people that are already
> good and sold on the idea of an IAL, and we all know that's the
> biggest hurdle of all.

That's good news right there.

> And for Occidental I would recommend reading here:
> 
> http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno-plus?aid=e0g

Ok thank you.

Cheers,
--Lang Newb

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