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CONLANG  December 2010, Week 3

CONLANG December 2010, Week 3

Subject:

Re: YAEUT: Historic present

From:

Tony Harris <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 16 Dec 2010 06:58:45 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (27 lines)

I have always heard the "So I says..." phrase as dialectal.  Usually, at 
least around rural/Western New England, when someone is playing at 
sounding like they're from New York City.  Not that the New Yorkers I 
know sound like that either, of course.


On 12/16/2010 06:05 AM, Samuel Stutter wrote:
> I always thought this usage as being "Italian American", although I couldn't work out why it might be the case, with all other occasions simply being imitations of "The Sopranos" / "Godfather". I assumed it was a dialectal grammar variation, in the same way in which several English dialects have a 2nd personal pronoun, or a phonological thing, like the Parisian tendency to stick schwa vowels at the end of some words (in which case the speaker would be using a "subjunctive" *and so I say to the guy* but adding a final /s/). Are there any other usages?
>
>
>
> On 16 Dec 2010, at 06:43, Douglas Koller<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Eric Christopherson"<[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:59:33 PM
>> Subject: YAEUT: Historic present
>>
>>> I've been familiar with the 1st-person "historic present" form of verbs for a while -- the one that is formally identical>to the third-person singular present, but is used in the first person when a person describes something that>happened to them. Until recently, the only verbs I knew of where that form was available were "say" and "go", as>in "so I says to the guy ...".
>>> However, I was surprised recently when I realized a woman I know often uses that form of verbs other than those>two, as in "I looks in there ...". I've heard her use that form of various verbs lately. I gather that "I says" is pretty>common; how common is it to use a distinct historic present form for other verbs in the first person singular?
>>> And is it the case that the 1st-person singular //z// historic present was originally restricted to just verbs like "say">and "go", but my friend's speech community has extended it to other verbs? Or is it the case that it was originally>applicable to many verbs, but now only "say" and "go" remain as fossilized forms of it in most dialects I'm familiar>with?
>>> And further, where did the historic present form in //z// come from, regardless of which verbs it applied to?
>> I'm not familiar with this usage. Certainly, Adam's "You pays your money, you takes your chances." is common enough, but that's not past tense. When I was a janitor back in university, one would encounter sentences like, "You takes your sponge and you wipes your counters, then you takes your mop and you mops your floor." (It's not *MY* sponge or counter, and it's not *MY* mop or floor! Aargh!) Also not past. Slipping into the present tense to represent the past, in theory, renders it more vivid, but I wouldn't plunk an "s" on it in the 1st person, per se. Commonly said here for discourse is, "So I'm like, 'What the f***?'" "Then he goes, 'I don't know.'" "Then I say, 'Well, you should.'"
>>
>> Kou

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