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CONLANG  January 2011, Week 2

CONLANG January 2011, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Sketch of a new nonlinear writing system

From:

Sai <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:53:38 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (75 lines)

On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Schuyler Duveen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> OTOH, I'd suggest adding a bit more orientation to your future/past dot (and
> similarly the terminitive/inceptive sides).  I think a good principle is
> that the more important the difference is, the less ambiguous it should be.

Elaborate please? Right now aspect/temporal marking doesn't really
have orientation other than clockwise/anticlockwise, and I'm not sure
what more it could have.


On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 4:05 PM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Are large texts 2-dimensional?

Philosophically, yes. Syntactically, we presume that all texts exist
on an infinite 2d plane, and view pagination as an evil that we will
deal with only if forced to.

> what happens to the normal unidimensionality of texts, to narrative, and so on?

We reject it to the extent possible.

More nuancedly: many of the presumptively unidimensional discourse
structures are, in our view, not actually. Or in some cases, they at
least have alternatives that aren't, and we prefer nonlinear
representations, ceteris paribus.

The one true linear thing (modulo time travel) is Time. There are
several linear elements, that all are temporally derived. For example,
the discourse symbol's full form has conversations back-and-forth
extend outwards, on a temporal axis; sparklines are generally temporal
on their outward axis; etc.

As Sky has also discussed in his presentation at LCC3
(http://ouwi.org/presentation/html/nl2dws.html), there are some things
- like narrative - that are severely affected by fully adopting a NLWS
ethic.

For example, our conversation representation is mostly meant for
quoting non-NLWS conversations. We've not decided yet how a native
conversation would go, but it's probably a very, very different kind
of thing - more a sort of mutual edit of a shared structure, where
revision history expresses the 'conversational' tone expected by
linear conversation, and the fixed form expresses whatever the
totality of what's been expressed is.

Stories, likewise, could well be nonlinear if one isn't fixated on a
particular sequence of events. Ours frees you from excessive focus on
one of the actors in a story, some particular way of reading the
whole, etc.

But we'll see; here I am speculative. I'd point you to http://ouwi.org
which has several example stories.

> My other question is whether there are further design goals besides those
> mentioned.

Certainly. The whole document is a work in progress, and the manifesto
section isn't complete either. ;-)

> Given the constraints you've set yourselves, it's not clear to me
> why you've been led to the particular solutions. It might be that within the
> constraints, your solutions are free and driven by some vaguer notions of
> taste or intuitions of utility (which I describe thus not deprecatingly but
> rather as a way of trying to contrast with the way some design problems have
> clear solutions or clearly superior and inferior solutions).

It'd be easier to answer about our motivations or reasoning for
particular solutions if you ask a more specific question.

Most of them are driven by a combination of Tuftian aesthetic utility
and philosophically nonlinear perspective, and had several
alternatives rejected in the process.

- Sai

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