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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  January 2011, Week 4

CONLANG January 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Not fixing anything

From:

BPJ <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:13:08 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (82 lines)

2011-01-22 17:26, R A Brown skrev:
> On 22/01/2011 12:46, BPJ wrote:
>> 2011-01-22 10:00, R A Brown skrev:
>>> While in the 2nd declension the nominative plural clearly
>>> survived in things like _amico_ [amiko[ ~ _amici_ [amitSi],
>>
>> As I pointed out and you agreed last time this came up I
>> think _amici_ is probably from the *vocative* plural (which
>> was identical to the nominative), used as a form of address.
>
> Yep - I think you're right.
>
>> If people peppered every third sentence with the vocative
>> plural it would be a good deal more frequent than the
>> accusative. It would seem then, however, that people then
>> did *not* use _amice_ (vocative singular) as a form of
>> address.
>
> In any case in Vulgar Latin the nom., voc. and accusative feminine
> plurals seem to have ended in -as. To use actually use _amicae_
> (or _amice_) would have been "speaking like a scroll" :)
>
> [snip]
>> < -as_ and second/fourth declension _-i_ also developed
>> through _-i < X < -oj < -oz < -os_. The question is what X
>> stands for: most probably unstressed _-oj_ became _2j > ej >
>> i_. It is notable that _-oj_ did merge with _-ej_ but _-aj_
>> didn't. Clearly the intermediate stage had a more open
>> front vowel quality than _-ej_ from _-es_ and _-os_.
>
> Yes, i would not disagree with any of that.
>
>> Note also the following:
>>
>> - nos > noi
>> - vos > voi
>> - post > poi
>> - magis > mai vs. Spanish _más_.
>
> Exactly!
>
> [snip]
>>
>> When I was in the "fixing Esperanto" stage in my teens
>> I reshuffled suffixes quite ruthlessly as follows:
>
> Oh yes, in my teens I produced quite a few 'fixes' of Esperanto ;)
>
> Fortunately, I forgotten nearly everything about them. As I say in
> the subject line, I'm not intending to fix anything.
>
> [snip]
>

When I spoke of _amice_ I meant the masculine vocative
singular. For some reason it must have been much less
frequently used than the vocative plural.

There are a few things in this world which I would like to
fix, but Esperanto hasn't been one of them for a long time.
I just derive some wry humor from leafing through the old
binders from time to time. There are some funny ideas there,
and even some good ones, though none of them is very useful.
If I were to fix an auxlang it would be English - namely
it's spelling, but naturally I don't have very high hopes
there either! :-)

That's not to say that I don't have ideas on how I would
design an SAE auxlang, but I see no point in pursuing them. I
sometimes play with the idea that such an auxlang exists in
the world where I imagine that some of my histlangs exist,
but I certainly have neither time nor motivation to flesh it
out.

The really hopeless conlanging project I'd actually like to
pursue is my idea of writing an historical grammar of
Rhodrese _in Rhodrese_. If only the language would settle
down enough and I had the time some conlangers might
hopefully find it worthwhile to try to read it!

/bpj

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