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CONLANG  February 2011, Week 1

CONLANG February 2011, Week 1

Subject:

Re: The verb "to want"

From:

Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 7 Feb 2011 21:53:38 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (101 lines)

On 7 February 2011 16:27, 1 2 <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Salutations,
>
> I would like to ask for examples on the different ways that languages
> have for rendering the idea of wanting. For example:
> "I want to sleep." ("want" and "sleep" have the same subject)
> "I want you to go over there." ("want" and "go" have different subjects)
> "He wants you to come." ("want" and "go" have different subjects)
> In the first sentence, if I'm interpreting it correctly, there is a
> subordinate clause ("to eat") which acts as the object of the verb
> "want" and consists of an infinitive which implicitly has the same
> subject as the main clause.
> In the next two sentences, the construction is different and allows
> different subjects for the verb "want" and for the verb in the
> subordinate clause. Here, I believe that the English construction "I
> want you to go" could be interpreted to be something like "I want for
> you to go" = "I want, for you, that you go".
> Some languages use subordinate clauses with an infinitive if the
> subjects are the same, but a verb in the subjunctive mood when the
> subjects are different. For example, in Portuguese:
> "Eu quero dormir." = "I want to sleep." (uses an infinitive, "dormir")
> "Eu quero que você durma." = "I want that you sleep" = "I want you to
> sleep" (uses a verb in the subjunctive mood, "durma")
>

Portuguese (at least in Europe, I don't know about Brazilian Portuguese) is
well known for having a so-called "personal infinitive", i.e. an infinitive
form that takes personal endings to indicate the subject of the infinitive.
Would this personal infinitive be allowed in this construction?


> Some languages even have a morphological mood (a desiderative) for
> this purpose. For example, in Sanskrit, in the ITRANS transliteration
> system:
> jigamiShaami (Present, Desiderative) = "I want to go"
> But the desiderative mood only serves for the situation in which the
> subjects are the same.
> My questions are:
> - What are the different ways that languages have for rendering this
> idea, for cases in which the subjects are the same (e.g. "I want to
> go") and for cases in which the subjects are different (e.g. "I want
> you to go")?
> - For languages which form this construction with a subordinate
> clause, which kinds of grammatical moods, if any, are usually
> employed? Are there generally non-finite verb forms and/or verbal
> nouns, such as an action noun, e.g. "I want your going there", or a
> participle, like "I want (that you be the one) who goes there")?
> - If a morphologically complex language has a desiderative mood, it
> appears to serve only for simple sentences, not for cases with
> different subjects; anyway, such languages need to express cases with
> different subjects somehow; how do they usually do it?
>
> Thank you in advance.
>

Philip Newton already answered the question with Modern Greek. French is
similar to Portuguese: plain infinitive if both subjects are identical,
subclause with verb in the subjunctive mood if the subjects are different:
_Je veux dormir_ = I want to sleep.
_Je veux que tu dormes_ = I want you to sleep.
This is true of both Written French and Spoken French, by the way (although
in Spoken French the second sentence sounds like this: [ˈʒvø ktyˈdɔʁm]).

In Japanese, the first case is handled with the desiderative suffix -たい:
_-tai_:
寝たい or 眠りたい (_netai_ or _nemuritai_): I want to sleep (informal form).
This suffix, however, is normally only used for the 1st person. It's
considered impolite to use it when the subject is not oneself, except maybe
when asking a close friend what they want. To indicate the desire of other
people, the suffix -たがっている: _-tagatte iru_ is used instead:
田中さんは寝たがっている (_Tanaka-san wa netagatte iru_): Mr. Tanaka wants to sleep
(informal form).
For the second case, i.e. when making a request, the expression this time is
-てほしい: _-te hoshii_:
あなたに寝てほしい (_anata ni nete hoshii_): I want you to sleep.
Note how the second subject in introduced with the indirect particle に. This
form, however, is very familiar. Usually, one would make a polite request
instead (for instance 寝てください [_nete kudasai_]: please sleep, or 寝てくれませんか
[_nete kuremasen ka_]: won't you sleep for me?).

In my Moten, the first case is handled using the desiderative mood (I can't
give you an example with "sleep", as I can't remember that word and don't
have my dictionary at hand. Instead, I'll give you an example with
_ipe|laj_: watch/see):
_Ga pelvazi ige_: I want to watch (it).
The second case is done by combining the desiderative mood with the
causative voice, i.e. "I want you to..." is basically translated as "I want
to make you...":
_Ga koba ipe|laj gedvaj ige_: I want you to watch/see (it) (i.e. "I want to
make you watch/see (it)").
In this case the sentence is ambiguous between "watch" and "see", but
context would usually make it clear what is meant.
Note also that in both cases the subject _ga_: "I" would usually be omitted.
Moten is as pro-drop as Japanese.
-- 
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.

http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/

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