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CONLANG  February 2011, Week 4

CONLANG February 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Fantasy Conlang Universals

From:

Sam Weston <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:28:42 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (177 lines)

This might seem like an off-topic question, but... How do languages in
fantasy books (the Inheritance series, which I understand isn't the best
example of a language) and the languages in fantasy movies (such as Star
Wars, for lack of better examples) compare? Effectively, I'm wondering what
the main difference would be between a spoken language and a transliteration
of one.

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Patrick Dunn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I'm not sure these are bad things.  They're shorthand for the perceptive.
>  My language Aerest is meant to look a bit like a Celtic Latin hybrid
> because it's spoken by a culture that's a deliberate Post-Roman British
> analogue.  When someone sees suffixes marking case, they're likely realize
> that their assumptions about the Indo-Europeanish of the culture can hold,
> at least until shown otherwise.  If the people of Lidhe spoke a
> polysynthetic language, it'd convey the wrong cultural baggage.
>
> Of course, you could argue that good fantasy should completely create a
> culture from the ground up.  I'd be willing to accept that argument, if you
> could point me to, say, five successful fantasy novels that do that.
>
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Ben Scerri <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Very interesting to my specific purposes for conlanging - as a method of
> > further diversifying the specific cultures in my novel - so thank you
> very
> > much. I am hearted to see that most of these flaws I haven't fallen into,
> > although I might have taken them slightly to far. It is an English
> language
> > novel, but I use quite a few 'foreign' phonemes, even so far as the
> > occasional click.
> >
> > I have a glossary at the back which includes a very simple crash course
> on
> > the phonology, so as to explain the sounds to those unfamiliar, as well
> as
> > a
> > dictionary of sorts for all the used words from the 4 prevalent
> languages.
> > Granted, each language is little more than a glorified naming language
> > (although two of them are used for small fleeting phrases, one is simply
> > for
> > words that have no English equivalent, and the last is for archaic
> terms).
> >
> > But yes, thank you, and I will keep an eye on this thread.
> >
> > On 26 February 2011 11:43, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > An interesting project, so long as one doesn't have to read the
> > literature
> > > itself. Perhaps somebody has already collected the requisite corpora?
> > >
> > > I suggest a salient characteristic is that 'th' (dental fricative) is
> > > vastly more common in fantasy langs than in actual natural languages,
> and
> > it
> > > is particularly fantalangish in word-final position.
> > >
> > > Others:
> > > *suffixing much more prevalent than prefixing (tho I don't know how
> this
> > > compares to natlangs)
> > > * if the fantalang has at least one affix, there will be a
> plural-marking
> > > affix
> > > * word-final -e and -u less frequent than -a, -i, -o
> > >
> > > I think the unexoticness of phonology is a special case, because names
> > have
> > > got to be pronounceable in English (or whatever the lg of the novel
> is).
> > If
> > > I were writing a novel set in Livagia, I think I'd consider anglicizing
> > the
> > > names to make them English-pronounceable. Same goes for if I was
> writing
> > a
> > > novel set among speakers of, say, Caucasian or Salishan or Khoisan or
> > > Australian lgs.
> > >
> > > --And.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dale McCreery, On 26/02/2011 19:00:
> > >
> > >  I just finished re-reading The Name of the Wind, copying down all of
> > >> phrases in the various in-world conlangs, the names of characters
> etc.,
> > >> and started wondering about conlanging and the fantasy genre in
> general.
> > >> It seems to me that besides all the literary conventions, that
> languages
> > >> in such fantasy universes have a lot of conventions themselves.  Iíve
> > >> taken the liberty of listing some of the obvious ones off the top of
> my
> > >> head and thought the list might have examples or additions to this
> list.
> > >>
> > >> Morphology - they will all have agentive suffixes, if there is a word
> > like
> > >> keldas meaning magik (they will always use both c and k) there will be
> a
> > >> word like keldasir meaning magician instead of some passive
> construction
> > >> íku-na-keldasí íone who magicsí.
> > >>
> > >> They also tend to be comparable to indoeuropean languages in terms of
> > how
> > >> isolating or agglutinative they are.  Plenty of short words, but by no
> > >> means isolating.
> > >>
> > >> Phonology - they love lís! and rís, and sonorants in general, be they
> > >> fricatives or vowels or whatever, and love hís.  They also love /'/,
> > >> though it's pronunciation is never really clear.
> > >>
> > >> Not much for consonant clusters, though if a language sample is
> supposed
> > >> to be more foreign it will likely have an initial consonant cluster,
> and
> > >> probably at least one of those consonants will be written with a
> > digraph.
> > >>
> > >> Simple vowel systems!  like the majority of the worlds languages,
> > fantasy
> > >> conlangs prefer the 5 vowel system, though they will sometimes throw
> in
> > >> /y/ or the odd umlaut.  Length distinctions and tones would mar the
> > >> reader's experience.
> > >>
> > >> Velars and rounded vowels are for the Dark Lord!  and we won't even
> talk
> > >> about uvulars...
> > >>
> > >> 'Magic' languages, or collections of 'words of power' are generally
> > >> grammar independant, you string them together and it's the thought
> that
> > >> counts.  Perhaps this is because you are not communicating with
> another
> > >> individual, but intead extending your own mind over nature, hence the
> > >> communicatee is you?
> > >>
> > >> Vocabulary - all fantasy langs were grown in situ, i.e. if they have a
> > >> word for sword, they always have had a word for sword and didn't have
> to
> > >> calque it or borrow it when they came over the mountains fifty years
> > ago.
> > >> In other words, the vast cultural differences between say european and
> > >> First Nations languages does not exist in fantasy, different groups
> have
> > >> either maintained their distinct languages around each other for a
> very
> > >> long time, or every innovation in the world was made in the distant
> past
> > >> and has had time to spread to every culture.
> > >>
> > >> That said - I'm waiting impatiently for March 1st when the sequel to
> > Name
> > >> of the Wind comes out!
> > >>
> > >> -Muskwatch-
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> I have stretched ropes from steeple to steeple; garlands from window to
> window; golden chains from star to star, and I dance.  --Arthur Rimbaud
>



-- 
Sam Weston

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