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AUXLANG  March 2011, Week 3

AUXLANG March 2011, Week 3

Subject:

Designed English Based Creole

From:

Risto Kupsala <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 23:19:02 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (61 lines)

Steve Rice wrote (under "Esperanto-parolantoj en la mondo" topic):
 > On 3/15/11, Risto Kupsala wrote:
 >> Steve Rice wrote:
 >>> But if you want to try something different, why not check into an
 >>> angloclone? I intend Inlis as a universal foreign English, and it's
 >>> very unlike English at a deep level, but I could produce a simplified
 >>> English that really is a form of English. I just think it would be
 >>> harder to learn and use. Still, you could try your luck: merge Tok
 >>> Pisin, Bislama, and a few others (they're already quite close), and
 >>> simplify some of the irregularities. The result would be accessible,
 >>> intelligible, and easy for most people who really need an auxlang.
 >>> I've considered doing it myself.
 >>
 >> If English based pidgins can really be merged, that would mean that the
 >> pre-existing user base is counted in millions maybe even in tens of
 >> millions, depending which pidgins can be merged. If there are enough
 >> similarities in key areas, the current pidgins could be even 
considered as
 >> dialects of the world pidgin. Imagine, world pidgin which is already
 >> spoken in the Caribbean, West Africa and South East Asia! Wow!
 >>
 >> Maybe the ingredients of the next world language are already in place.
 >> Someone just should put them together.
 >>
 > I'm not saying it would be easy, but a compromise could probably be
 > achieved. It would even be a worldlang of sorts: it would be English
 > as filtered through various non-IE substrates, as global a language as
 > one might want.

It depends on the definition of worldlang.

 > The quickest, easiest method would be to start with Tok Pisin (the
 > largest, most stable English-based creole) and tweak it toward the
 > others. Or you could compare the various EBCs in terms of phonoloogy,
 > grammar, and vocabulary--I tried that a while ago, but a lot of
 > details aren't readily available online.
 >
 > Still, if someone would like to pursue the matter, we could form a
 > group for the purpose. Just remember that creoles are natlangs--they
 > have the usual random quirks that a properly designed auxlang should
 > eliminate. Redesign TP (or a compromise EBC) as a proper auxlang, and
 > you're about done. Since TP has, apparently, even more users than Eo
 > (though James may dispute this as well), with newspapers and other
 > corpus vehicles, a lot of vocabulary and usage problems would resolve
 > themselves. Just check the news to see how a new term is translated.
 >
 > Anyway, I'd be willing to pursue a designed EBC if anyone else is.

I am tempted but hesitant. I don't know much about English based creoles 
and pidgins. I have seen some texts and I have got the impression that 
they are probably too peculiar and original for the job. They differ so 
much from real English that it could alienate auxlanger folks. So 
perhaps a more suitable approach would be to start from 2nd language 
English, I mean some kind of imperfectly learned English that is 
comprehensible anyway.

But like I said, I don't know much about EBCs. I bet we could learn from 
them, though.

-- Risto

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