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CONLANG  March 2011, Week 3

CONLANG March 2011, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Phonology: Initial glottal stop + stop

From:

Eric Christopherson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 16:25:40 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (52 lines)

Thanks for the input, everyone.

On Mar 20, 2011, at 1:40 PM, John Vertical wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 00:19:47 -0500, Eric Christopherson wrote:
> 
>> Are there any natlangs with words with initial glottal stop followed by a stop?
>> 
>> I'm trying to figure out if it's even possible. If I try pronouncing [?ta]
> I end up (I think) producing a glottal stop, then a period of voicing (as if
> I were pronouncing [d::]), and then [ta].
>> 
>> I guess that's actually sort of convenient, because in later stages of this
> lang I've been wanting to have a sound change of [?]+stop > stop[+voice],
> and the fact that there seems to be voicing before the release makes this
> seem plausible, at least initially. However, I really don't like the sound
> of [?]+voicing+[t]. (I also don't like implosives, but that might be a
> logical transformation too.)
> 
> There is indeed an analysis of Vietnamese (and probably some of the other
> languages in the region as well) by which [ɓ ɗ] would actually be clusters
> /ʔp ʔt/.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_phonology
> 
> Going from [ɓ ɗ] to [b d] should be easy, even tho I can't think of examples
> at the moment.
> 
> I imagine a straight [ʔt] would not be attested. If you're getting voicing,
> that's probably something like [ʔət] (perhaps with creaky voice or something
> on the shwa). I imagine that'd prompt an analysis as /(ʔ)ət/ rather than an
> onset cluster.

I thought of that, but I'm pretty sure the sound I'm making isn't a vowel. I can make it with my mouth closed for a short period of time, and the sound comes from my throat.

> 
> Me tho, attempting /ʔt-/ I tend to get not voicing but an "anti-implosiv" —
> a class of sound that seems not to turn up in natlangs (or con-) but is
> well-attested from beatboxing as a bass drum imitation:
> 1) glottal closure
> 2) oral closure
> 3) lowering of glottis
> 4) glottal release
> 5) oral release.

I'm only passingly familiar with beatboxing, and I'm not able to discern steps 1-5, but I believe that is the sound I described.

> 
> (Switch 4 & 5 and you have an imposiv. Additionally change 4) to raising and
> you have an ejectiv. Switching 1 & 2 does not seem to make much difference.)
> 
> John Vertical

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