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CONLANG  March 2011, Week 4

CONLANG March 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: CHAT: Vulgar Latin Bible?

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:52:22 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (80 lines)

--- On Mon, 3/28/11, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> From: R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [CONLANG] CHAT: Vulgar Latin Bible?
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 3:38 AM
> On 27/03/2011 23:39, Padraic Brown
> wrote:
> > --- On Sun, 3/27/11, Ph.D.<[log in to unmask]> 
> wrote:
> [snip]
> >> 
> >> Isn't that wrong? I thought the Vulgate was
> essentially
> >> Classical Latin. That makes me wonder what other
> errors
> >> are in that book.
> > 
> > I think the truth here is somewhere between "yes" and
> "no".
> 
> No - the statement is quite wrong. Vulgar Latin was never a
> written language.

Well, no one is saying that VL is a written language, or that Jerome's
Vulgate was written in VL. Nor even that previous versions of scripture
were written in VL. (Except for the book already quoted!)

> > From what I've
> > read, St. Jerome was a competent translator and a
> gifted scholar, so I
> > don't think we can doubt that he could write good
> Classical Latin. And that
> > the New Vulgate he produced was good CL.
> 
> I assume you mean Jerome's Vulgate - the 'New Vulgate' is a
> modern version which can be found on the Vatican website:
> http://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/nova_vulgata/documents/nova-vulgata_index_lt.html

Jerome's was "new" at the time! From what I understand (Hopkins-
James "Celtic Gospels", Oxford), the Old Latin version that existed before 
Jerome's time was also called "Vulgate"; and later scholars have called 
it "Old Vulgate" in order to keep it distinct from Jerome's "New Vulgate".

If that's wrong, go argue with Hopkins-James! ;)

> > However, his was not the only Latin text around, there
> were older Vulgates
> > and many other regional and local versions.
> 
> No, they weren't "vulgates" - the 'editio Vulgata' is the
> '[officially] published edition.' It is true that when Pope
> Damasus I commissioned Jerome to produce the Vulgate there
> were several Latin versions of parts of the scriptures
> around.  But they weren't in Vulgar Latin; they tended
> to be very literal word for word translations.

Again, no one is saying they were written in VL!

I do contend that a text written in anything but top notch standard is
not "good", be it Latin or English. So, when I see (or write) a text with
a load a "aints" or quasi-phonetic spellings (gonna, woulda, eks.), or
non-English grammatical structures (long time no see); I don't call 
that "Standard American English". I call that something more colloquial. 

If I were to look at a Latin MS and find words that are spelled not 
properly, but under the influence of the common speech, I wouldn't call 
that good book Latin either. I wouldn't call it VL -- I am well aware that 
there are grammatical and lexical differences as well! -- but, as I said 
before, the truth would be somewhere between the vulgar and the learned 
languages.

> -- Ray

Padraic
---
POIC Avir trais dieyes en al icaica anouram an: acco: histenumver etti vas nan poudire moutasiare ican; eiomver etti vas nan sabire ai vas eiothayare enis ican swe nan eiothayare enis ican; mendê hotimver etti vas melere moulvaniccere al agathom en ica na. 

Said Jesus: There are three days in this world: look, a yesterday and you can not alter it; a tomorrow and you don’t know if you will enter into it or if you will not enter into it; but indeed a today and you should do good within it. 

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