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CONLANG  March 2011, Week 5

CONLANG March 2011, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Etymological tangent

From:

Eric Christopherson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:06:03 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (92 lines)

On Mar 28, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Matthew Boutilier wrote:

>> 
>> cf. Sp. *Diego*
>> 
> *
> *i did some further reading and there's a theory that [Sanctus]+Iaco(mo) >
> Santiago, whence through backformation *Tiago > Diego.  the form Tiago seems
> hella dubious, since AFAIK there was never a voicing of initial stops in
> spanish (cf. Lat *tenes* > Sp *tienes*) - though i'm no expert on spanish.
> but Iacomus > Gemmes (whence James?) and Giacomo appear solid.

There's also the theory that _Diego_ derives from _DIDACUS_, which is possibly also connected to _Díaz_/_Días_. _Diego_ from _DIDACUS_ would be fairly regular, I think, as long as you put the accent on the first syllable of the etymon (_ía_ > _ié_ regularly in Old Spanish, as in imperfects like _tenié_, which later for some reason was restored to _tenía_). Anyway, the two similar names might have gotten conflated.

(Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaz> also mentions _Diago_; and there's also Pt. _Diogo_; I'm not sure of the etymology of that.)

I'm not sure if the final _-go_ is due to a dropping of the original _-bo/-mo_ syllable (like Bartolo < Bartolomeo), or if the etymon is _Iacob_, where the final _-b_ is strange to VL/Romance ears and so drops; or if it derives from _-güe_, as in the church/place name Santi(y)agüe < SANCTI IACOBI (genitive).

> 
> if anyone knows about the spanish reflex of word-initial /j/ in latin, feel
> free to contribute.

I'm trying to remember the rules for /j/ preceding different vowels. I know that, depending on the vowel, the /j/ either dropped or became /j/* or /x/.

* Or however you transcribe the Spanish _y_, which is often a fricative or affricate.

> 
> matt
> 
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Matthew Boutilier <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> Late Latin *Iacomus* apparently became French *Gemmes*, probably through
>> the same consonant loss that produced *Pierre* from *Petrus*.  For other
>> reflexes of Iacomus, cf. Sp. *Diego* (which I suppose lost the *-mo* and
>> of course /k/ was voiced) and It. *Giacomo* which more clearly reflects
>> Iacomus).
>> 
>> sources: l'internet
>> 
>> matt
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Garth Wallace <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> Okay, I'm in a very weird conversation with someone from another list
>>> who is
>>>> about as goofy with their linguistics as any
>>>> 
>>> Etruscan-was-the-Ursprach-of-the-original-Ancient-Atronauts-who-populated-Atlantis
>>>> teorist out there.  This person has been busily explaining the "real"
>>>> meaning of Carraxan to me,


Garth: what do you mean by him/her "explaining the 'real' meaning of Carraxan"?

>>>> but just diverged for a moment to tell me the
>>>> "real" meaning of James.  You see I can't possibly be derived from Jacob
>>>> because they don't look the same.  I know this person is just as wrong
>>> about
>>>> this derivation as they are about that of Carraxan, but is there anyone
>>> here
>>>> who actually knows the accepted path of sound changes and language
>>> hand-offs
>>>> from Ya'akov to James?  I know there is a Greek form involved in there
>>> and
>>>> wouldn't doubt Latin and French getting into the mix, but I'd like to
>>> have
>>>> the facts.  Thankees in advance.
>>> 
>>> According to Wikipedia (which doesn't cite a source for this):
>>> 
>>> | The name came into English language from the French variation of the
>>> late Latin
>>> | name, Iacomus; a dialect variant of Iacobus, from the New Testament
>>> Greek Ἰάκωβος
>>> | (Iákōbos), from Hebrew word יעקב (Yaʻaqov). The development Iacobus
>>>> Iacomus is
>>> | likely a result of nasalization of the o and assimilation to the
>>> following b (i.e.,
>>> | intermediate *Iacombus) followed by simplification of the cluster mb
>>> through loss of
>>> | the b.
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_(name)>
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, it doesn't explain how the "co" got lost, and it
>>> doesn't cite any sources. The rest of the article is a list of
>>> cognates in other languages and a note on frequency.
>>> 
>> 
>> 

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