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CONLANG  April 2011, Week 1

CONLANG April 2011, Week 1

Subject:

Re: A translation exercise.

From:

Cullen Kain <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 5 Apr 2011 15:50:15 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (84 lines)

On 4/4/2011 11:43 PM, Padraic Brown wrote:
> --- On Mon, 4/4/11, Cullen Kain<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>>> In Çideaux:
>>> Haven't heard of Çideax -- can you tell me more about
>>> it? Where it's from,
>>> where it's spoken? It does look considerably Gallic.
>>>
>>> Where does "sudélli" come from?
>>>
>>>> "I wish to know who it is who wishes us stopped
>>>> wish.1SG.PRS know.INF who.ACC wish.3SG.PRS REL
>>>> stop.1PL.SUBJ
>>>> "Sudélli a sapaire quique sudéllit que
>> arrètessant
>>> Padraic
>>> ---
>>> eim vas v’ anaware, eim men meitas’ anaware
>>>
>>> as you yourselves view, so indeed one-another view
>> Çideaux is an a priori language I've been working on for
>> some weeks now. It makes sense that you've never heard
>> of it because I have never posted to the list before,
>> despite reading it for almost six months now.
> Alright then. I've been nomail for the last few years, so even if you'd
> posted about recently, I wouldn't have seen it!
>
>> It is
>> very much inspired by French, but I've taken some elements
>> from other Romance languages (e.g., pro-dropping). It uses a
>> three-case system, so is probably typical as far as romlangs
>> go, but it's not supposed to be just a set of sound changes
>> imposed upon Vulgar Latin. (Is it still considered a
>> "romlang" if it's a priori?)
> Judging from the text and from the definition of "a priori", and assuming
> I've got the two straight, I'd say that Çideaux must be a posteriori,
> rather than a priori, since its grammar and lexicon seem to be more
> derived from existing language(s) than they are created from whole cloth.
I suppose so. Really, dividing languages into the black-and-white
categories of "a priori" and "a posteriori" is bound to lead to some
inaccuracies. A more accurate idea would be a scale, with "completely a
priori" on one end and "completely a posteriori" on the other. Çideaux
is probably closer to a posteriori, but I have had some innovations in
both the grammar and the lexicon (e.g., a pronoun meaning "then" (as in,
at that time) to parallel French's "y" (there) and "en" (difficult to
translate but sort of means "about which")).
> It's a "romlang" in so far as its roots are French, and it seems to read
> very much like a Romance language, French or otherwise.
>
> As for the three case system, I'd say that is quite atypical for romlangs!
> Most of them do as modern Western Romance languages do and drop case
> distinctions (with the exception of some vestiges in the pronouns). My
> own Romance conlang, Kerno, has a two case system (akin to Old French),
> with some vestiges of several more scattered here and there in the
> syntax.
I have the conception (possibly a wrong one) that romlangs tend to
overuse case systems because their creators probably don't speak (at
least not as an L1) a language with a case system, and because of that,
case systems are "exotic." Combine this with a conlanger's tendency to
want his language to be interesting (no harm in that!), and romlangs
with case systems become popular. This is purely an opinion.
> The present, Loucarian, while not strictly speaking a Romance conlang,
> has a two case system with some vestiges.

I see on FrathWiki that Kerno is quite a pretty language! In fact it's
strikingly similar (at least on the surface) to what I was hoping to
accomplish with Çideaux.
> I should certainly like to see more on Çideaux!
I greatly appreciate the interest. I'm really in that early-middle
stage of the language, where I have enough of a grammar to write
sentences and enough of a phonology to speak them, but the lexicon is
the main issue. I'm working on it though and I hope to have something
formal and nice-looking ready to present to the world soon!
>> Also, the verb "sudéllir" ( [sudejir] ) is my made-up
>> version of French's "souhaiter," which derives from
>> (according to cntrl.fr) /sous /+ /haitan/.
> Ménage (1694) says it's derived ultimately from sub + optare. Although he
> does also mention a German derivation: haitinga.
>
I saw that a related word (I forget which language it was from) was
"heizzan," which I simply love. My made up pronunciation for this word
was [etsan], but unfortunately I haven't been able to work it into
Çideaux just yet. Maybe I'll use it as a synonym for sudéllir.

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