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CONLANG  June 2011, Week 4

CONLANG June 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Heading/going X (was: Hello and a question)

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:37:00 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (113 lines)

--- On Mon, 6/27/11, Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> An interesting set of replies. Thanks to all.

I think it's an interesting topic -- even Pullman's take on the matter is
an interesting read, though I disagree with a lot of his opinions on how
certain words can and can not be used.

> The closest Amer.Engl. expression I can come up with
> (equiv. to Yuri's and Padraic's) is 'to go off the grid'.

Indeed, though I at least wouldn't quite equate that disappearing into
the woods. To me, that just means disconnecting from an increasingly
e-connected culture. It implies things like snipping the cable tv (but
not giving up tv altogether) and terminating cell phone service (but
being quite happy with a landline). It might involve cutting up credit
cards and paying with cash and living a simpler life right in downtown
America.

> While there are wilderness areas in the US where one can go
> and live off the land (the Olympic Bomber who fled into the
> relative wilds of N.Carolina comes to mind, but even he had
> help from sympathizers), I don't think we have an idiom to
> express that idea. "Going mountain/forest/desert"...noooo.
> "Going _into the_ mountains/etc.... yes. We do have the idea
> of "mountain man", which is similar, but no "go..."
> expression for that.

Well, there's a blog for that:

http://www.myspace.com/mysillydrama/blog/441720822

> As to the larger question: what is the status of the
> noun/adjective in "going X" or "heading X" expressions, to
> me it's clear that at least with some verbs of motion which
> ordinarily take a prep.phrase indicating the direction
> (hence, adverbial), in some cases the prep. can be deleted,
> leaving the noun (hence it becomes "adverbial"). And it
> seems to me that you can't put just any noun in the frame
> "go..." or "head..."

Me I'm perfectly happy with calling them adverbs. They do what other
well known adverbs do in the same position. It all comes down to English's
ability to adverb nouns and adjectives without much ado. I know -- a
prescriptivist's nightmare! So I have no problem with calling it a straight
up adverb, or even wishywashying a little and calling it an adverbial
something or other.

Whatever we call it, it acts like other words we call adverbs.

Perhaps we "can't" put just any noun in there cos we haven't tried to?

If Aussie chicks can go bush and we can go mountain man, perhaps it's just
a matter of trying out some other way to head?

> Note that one can make the noun more definitely adverbial
> by adding on -ward(s), like the guy in Waugh's _Scoop_, who
> to minimize the word count in his cables to London wrote
> things like "going Nairobiwards tomorrow"

Right. This simply makes explicit the directionality of the phrase by
making a noun into an adverb.

> I can't think of any "head X"'s that don't imply a
> direction;

Well, "go native" doesn't, and "go mountainman" doesn't seem to. Those are
more states of being than directions of place.

> "go X" is another matter, it can be directional
> (go east/home/downtown/)-- "go dancing/shopping" are
> borderline.

Yeah. Some of these I think are simply phasal verbs. My interpretation of
"go shopping" doesn't really have anything to do with "go"ing somewhere
so much as "experiencing the activity of shopping", usually in company.
So for me, that's a phrasal verb.

> But we also have a number of expressions where
> "go" means something more like "become", as in "go
> wild/crazy/ballistic/AWOL/missing". Again I suspect there's
> a limited number of adjectives that can be used there.

Possibly. Though again, is this because of some sensible limitation or
simply because no one's thought of using a different adjective there?

Before WWII or thereabouts, "going stateside" wasn't part of the vernacular
and now it is. Someone had to start it.

> In languages I'm familiar with, you can't do anything like
> this-- you need the preposition: (Span.) ir a casa/al
> este/al centro; nor Ital. Fr. Germ., except maybe in very
> colloquial/non-standard registers? Certainly not in
> Indonesian-- pergi ke rumah, ke timur etc. 

A wonderful property of English!

> Although when our group of students from Java went on a
> field trip to Bali, as we were leaving, the director had the
> bus stop near the main street of Denpasar and he called out
> "Siapa mau shopping lagi?" = who wants (to do,go) shopping
> some more?, and everyone decamped from the bus
> ;-))))   But everyone was fluent in English,
> and I don't think he could have used the Indo. word
> 'belanja' for 'shopping'.........

Is this related to Indonesian at all? I'm afraid I don't much at all about
languages of that area of the world :( except that whenever I look in an
Indonesian dictionary, I find all kinds of words I know simply because of
their relationship to Philippine languages. 

Padraic

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