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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  June 2011, Week 4

CONLANG June 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Top Ten Invented Languages

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:05:42 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (74 lines)

On 23/06/2011 08:55, Roman Rausch wrote:
>> For me, putting Quenya on the 9'th place looks like a
>> blasphemy: it should
> share
>> the first position with Esperanto.
>
> Yes, but the real vicitim of rankings of this kind is
> Sindarin, every time. Almost all the film dialogues are
> (or supposed to be) in Sindarin; almost all the names and
> toponyms are Sindarin; it had a profound effect on
> future fantasy;

This is all true. _Personally_ I much prefer Quenya, but
IME people Sindarin tends to be preferred as it supposedly
has a more "Celtic" feel and I think Roman is right in
saying Sindarin has had a greater effect on later fantasy
languages.

> yet no one remembers poor Sindarin when
> it comes to appreciation...

No - if you look back in the archives, you'll find people
listing Sindarin among their favorites.

>> Solresol doesn't belong because it never got a 2nd
>> competent speaker (or writer).
>
> Do you really need speakers? A following of fans and
> scholars should be enough (which Solresol doesn't have
> either, of course).

It certainly provoked a good deal of interest in its day. I
assume that besides Francois Sudre, its inventor (1866), 
Boleslas Gajewski, who published a grammar of the language
in 1902, could speak it.  It seems doubtful to me that none
of those who showed interest during those years could
manage anything - I guess it depends how competent a
'competent speaker' has to be.

I understand it still has a small band of aficionados. It's
certainly unusual and I don't begrudge it a place.

>> Newspeak doesn't belong because you can't actually
>> translate the Bible (or any large document) into
>> Newspeak. Not for any feature of Newspeak other than
>> it is just a sketch for an idea of a conlang!
>
> You can't do it with Quenya/Sindarin and the attested
> grammar and vocabulary either. I don't think that it
> should matter at all how deeply a language is developed.

Yes, but surely while potentially Quenya & Sindarin could
be developed to do these things, the whole point of Newspeak 
is to _prevent_ people from accessing literature
or such 'dangerous' things as the Bible - it was to curb
created thought.  Newspeak was a severely cut down form of
English so that "Big Brother" could exert control over
people's thinking.

But the author of the so=called 'top ten' invented
languages doesn't give any indication of the criteria
by which the languages are chosen - it seems, as some
others have observed, a highly _subjective_ choice and,
therefore, not one I find very interesting.

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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