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CONLANG  June 2011, Week 4

CONLANG June 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: conscript fontification query

From:

Michael Everson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 09:28:45 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (91 lines)

On 25 Jun 2011, at 22:59, Patrick Dunn wrote:

>>> Short answer:  Why the hell not?
>> 
>> Demerit. Flippant, and if that were sufficient, then why don't we see any such writing systems surviving?
> 
> Wow, I'm the bad kid.  I should wear a leather jacket and smoke cigarettes out in the parking lot.

"Oh, good. He's seen the humour," the maven said, imperiously.

>>> As far as computers or mechanical typewriters go, they might very well encourage boustrophedon.
>> 
>> Unlikely for the latter, since glyphs are typically reversed when the directionality reverses, and that would require at least more complicated typewriters than the ones we (or some of us) grew up with.
> 
> Good point.

As I said, market forces would of course lead to the development of such typewriters. Except there's no market for boustrophedon, because it's inherently unsatisfactory to users. Which is why it's been dropped every time. 

>> But there are no market pressures to create boustrophedon typewriters because boustrophedon writing has always been selected for extinction in every writing system that tried it.
> 
> Selected for?  Are you suggesting that evolutionary pressures influence writing systems?  Language, sure: that's biological.  But writing is purely cultural.

It's a metaphor.

People keep useful tools, and ditch tools which are not useful. 

>>> Obviously it could be read: people weren't doing it for the cardio.
>> 
>> For the what?
> 
> A bon mot.  For the cardiovascular exercise.

When I were a lad, they said that folks used boustrophedon out of laziness.

>>> Moreover, it obviously *can* be read.
>> 
>> Can it be quickly skimmed for content? I doubt it.
> 
> I don't see why it couldn't?  If Chinese can be skimmed for content, why not a slightly more complex alphabet?

Well, all the people who used boustrophedon abandoned it. Since it interferes with legibility (in a way that LTR or RTL does not) it is not unreasonable to suggest that this was a factor leading to the abandonment. Chinese has its complexities, but not the complexity of glyph reversal.

> It took a trivial amount of practice, quite a bit easier than learning T-line or, as I did this year, fixing my handwriting by adopting a new script.  I could not write it quite as quickly, but I suspect that was a function of lack of practice.
> 
> I was actually surprised at how difficult I did NOT find the entire thing.

Hm. I had a friend (now dead alas) who left behing many notebooks in runes. 

>>> Ultimately, I go back to my previous response: why the hell not?
>> 
>> Because it's not practical.
> 
> I know you're a world-renowned expert and so forth, but . . . have you *seen* Japanese?

Well, yes.

> Lack of practicality is clearly not a death sentence for a writing system.

Seems to depend on the specific criteria.

> A writing system involving two syllabaries on top of a logographic system,

Actually that functions very well in terms of word-recognition. Katakana is sort of like italics used for foreign words. 

> each of the characters of which can be read in several different ways depending on context?

I don't know how many of the Kanji characters have multiple readings. All of them? Perhaps not. Some of them have ten readings. Do I think this is a positive element of functionality? No, I don't. But *readings* of glyphs are different from *deformations* of glyphs, which happens under boustrophedon direction reversal. And that impedes word recognition significantly, and that is why I suggest that this is one of the chief reasons boustrophedon fails to survive. Note please that boustrophedon when found is found EARLY in the development of a writing system, and it is abandoned early too. 

I bet statistically you get more misspellings in boustrophedon than in unidirectional writing. 

> Practical enough to survive.  

Boustrophedon has not been as practical as Japanese writing, evidently. 

> A writing system carved into mountains using space-based lasers . . . probably not practical enough to survive.

Demerit. Random extremism is not much of an argument. ;-)

> There's a lot of room between those two extremes.

Yes, but I think my analysis of the abandonment of boustrophedon is sounder than the counter-explanations so far seen. 

> Why did boustrophedon writing not survive?  Probably a wide range of factors, mostly historical, none of them evolutionary, and likely none of them inevitable.


*No* culture that tried it kept it. The one that kept it longest was Egyptian, and that was only in monumental framing contexts, and never in handwriting. 

Good night.

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

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