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CONLANG  June 2011, Week 4

CONLANG June 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: conscript fontification query

From:

Samuel Stutter <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 16:48:06 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (151 lines)

By the way, there is a fudge to allow you to do this, so long as you  
have something a bit desktop publishing-y (I know you can do it on  
Apple Pages, so I assume it's possible on newer versions of Word and  
Publisher) and are happy to screw around with page layouts:

Assuming you already have a font made (for left to right display):

Allocate each line of text a separate textbox, with linking between them
Then invert every other textbox

Yeah, I know it doesn't look very good, but it was worth a try


On 26 Jun 2011, at 09:28, Michael Everson wrote:

> On 25 Jun 2011, at 22:59, Patrick Dunn wrote:
>
>>>> Short answer:  Why the hell not?
>>>
>>> Demerit. Flippant, and if that were sufficient, then why don't we  
>>> see any such writing systems surviving?
>>
>> Wow, I'm the bad kid.  I should wear a leather jacket and smoke  
>> cigarettes out in the parking lot.
>
> "Oh, good. He's seen the humour," the maven said, imperiously.
>
>>>> As far as computers or mechanical typewriters go, they might very  
>>>> well encourage boustrophedon.
>>>
>>> Unlikely for the latter, since glyphs are typically reversed when  
>>> the directionality reverses, and that would require at least more  
>>> complicated typewriters than the ones we (or some of us) grew up  
>>> with.
>>
>> Good point.
>
> As I said, market forces would of course lead to the development of  
> such typewriters. Except there's no market for boustrophedon,  
> because it's inherently unsatisfactory to users. Which is why it's  
> been dropped every time.
>
>>> But there are no market pressures to create boustrophedon  
>>> typewriters because boustrophedon writing has always been selected  
>>> for extinction in every writing system that tried it.
>>
>> Selected for?  Are you suggesting that evolutionary pressures  
>> influence writing systems?  Language, sure: that's biological.  But  
>> writing is purely cultural.
>
> It's a metaphor.
>
> People keep useful tools, and ditch tools which are not useful.
>
>>>> Obviously it could be read: people weren't doing it for the cardio.
>>>
>>> For the what?
>>
>> A bon mot.  For the cardiovascular exercise.
>
> When I were a lad, they said that folks used boustrophedon out of  
> laziness.
>
>>>> Moreover, it obviously *can* be read.
>>>
>>> Can it be quickly skimmed for content? I doubt it.
>>
>> I don't see why it couldn't?  If Chinese can be skimmed for  
>> content, why not a slightly more complex alphabet?
>
> Well, all the people who used boustrophedon abandoned it. Since it  
> interferes with legibility (in a way that LTR or RTL does not) it is  
> not unreasonable to suggest that this was a factor leading to the  
> abandonment. Chinese has its complexities, but not the complexity of  
> glyph reversal.
>
>> It took a trivial amount of practice, quite a bit easier than  
>> learning T-line or, as I did this year, fixing my handwriting by  
>> adopting a new script.  I could not write it quite as quickly, but  
>> I suspect that was a function of lack of practice.
>>
>> I was actually surprised at how difficult I did NOT find the entire  
>> thing.
>
> Hm. I had a friend (now dead alas) who left behing many notebooks in  
> runes.
>
>>>> Ultimately, I go back to my previous response: why the hell not?
>>>
>>> Because it's not practical.
>>
>> I know you're a world-renowned expert and so forth, but . . . have  
>> you *seen* Japanese?
>
> Well, yes.
>
>> Lack of practicality is clearly not a death sentence for a writing  
>> system.
>
> Seems to depend on the specific criteria.
>
>> A writing system involving two syllabaries on top of a logographic  
>> system,
>
> Actually that functions very well in terms of word-recognition.  
> Katakana is sort of like italics used for foreign words.
>
>> each of the characters of which can be read in several different  
>> ways depending on context?
>
> I don't know how many of the Kanji characters have multiple  
> readings. All of them? Perhaps not. Some of them have ten readings.  
> Do I think this is a positive element of functionality? No, I don't.  
> But *readings* of glyphs are different from *deformations* of  
> glyphs, which happens under boustrophedon direction reversal. And  
> that impedes word recognition significantly, and that is why I  
> suggest that this is one of the chief reasons boustrophedon fails to  
> survive. Note please that boustrophedon when found is found EARLY in  
> the development of a writing system, and it is abandoned early too.
>
> I bet statistically you get more misspellings in boustrophedon than  
> in unidirectional writing.
>
>> Practical enough to survive.
>
> Boustrophedon has not been as practical as Japanese writing,  
> evidently.
>
>> A writing system carved into mountains using space-based  
>> lasers . . . probably not practical enough to survive.
>
> Demerit. Random extremism is not much of an argument. ;-)
>
>> There's a lot of room between those two extremes.
>
> Yes, but I think my analysis of the abandonment of boustrophedon is  
> sounder than the counter-explanations so far seen.
>
>> Why did boustrophedon writing not survive?  Probably a wide range  
>> of factors, mostly historical, none of them evolutionary, and  
>> likely none of them inevitable.
>
>
> *No* culture that tried it kept it. The one that kept it longest was  
> Egyptian, and that was only in monumental framing contexts, and  
> never in handwriting.
>
> Good night.
>
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

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