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CONLANG  July 2011, Week 2

CONLANG July 2011, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Base-6 Number System (Count to 35 on 2 hands!)

From:

Philip Newton <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:49:45 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (115 lines)

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 21:15, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> gzb nominally has root words for all the primes up to 113, though I'm
> not sure I should count all the ones above 31 which I haven't
> thoroughly internalized.

It also has ones for higher primes, doesn't it? I seem to recall
seeing single words for primes on the order of 2000, presumably used
at least occasionally when telling dates.

Also, they seemed to follow a rough pattern, so I wonder whether the
primes between 113 and 19xx exist at least in theory (or that at least
part of the words - the initial consonant IIRC - could be guessed).


On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 21:54, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> The shear weirdness of the Danish number system is overwhelming! Do Danish
> people think of those truly as compounds, or are they felt as units of
> meaning, like we French people feel about things like "quatre-vingt"?

I don't know for sure, but I assume they feel them as units of meaning
- especially since the common forms of the cardinal numbers omit the
"twenty" morpheme. (I believe it's still obligatory to include it in
the ordinal forms.)

So I think that, say, "halvtreds" is just as much a unit to a Dane as
"fifty" is to an English speaker, not analysed as "five-ten".

I do wonder whether "fire" (4), "fyrre" (40), and "firs" (80)
occasionally produce ambiguity - but perhaps not more than, say,
"fourteen" and "forty".

And I find it interesting that the vigesimal method doesn't seem to
start until 50 - 20 is "tyve", 30 is "tredve" or "tredive" - which
looks a bit like _tre_ "3" + _tyve_ to me -, and 40 is "fyrre", then
50 is "halvtreds" < "halvtredsindstyve", the aforementioned "half
three times twenty" (compare the ordinal "halvtredsindstyvende).
Though looking on Wikipedia, "fortieth" is "fyrretyvende", which seems
odd to me; it looks like "forty-twentieth".

Oddly enough, 60 is "tres(indstyve)"; I don't know why 50 =
"halvtreds(indstyve)" has -ds while 60 = "tres(indstyve)" only has -s.

That d/no-d pattern is repeated in 70 = "halvfjerds(indstyve)" (cf.
_fjerde_ "fourth") and 80 = "firs(indstyve)".

Then you have 90 = "halvfems(indstyve)" without -d-. But 100 is not
"fems" :) Instead, you have the more-or-less expected "hundred(e)".


On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 22:46, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> The (duo)decimal systems have various ways of expressing numbers other than
> 0--11. For integers, one of the methods is, like English (and Lojban), to
> just list the digits. But unlike English (and Lojban), the list starts from
> the units. So 1783 is "three eight seven one". Are there other languages
> that do that?

Arabic does the order thing but not just the digits; I think 1783 is
"three and eighty and seven-hundred and a thousand". (So their writing
the numbers left-to-right [or so it seems to our conventions],
embedded in right-to-left writing, makes a bit more sense - the
numbers are read from right to left as well!)


On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 00:27, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2011 21:40:53 +0200, BPJ <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>2011-07-07 21:23, Padraic Brown skrev:
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 7/7/11, Philip Newton<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>>>> And the Danes, too, for that matter (54 = "four and
>>>> half-way towards three times twenty").
>>>
>>> Wouldn't that be 4 + (.5 * (3*20)) = 34? :)
>>
>>Nope, it's 4+((3*20)-(1/2*20)) = 54!
>
> I'd insist on 4+.5*20 + (3-1)*20 = 54.  It's "four and halfway towards the
> third twenty [from the second]", not "four and halfway back from the third
> twenty [towards the second]".

That's how it feels to me, too.


On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 05:02, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Ah, I see now! -- (halfway towards three) * (twenty) and not
> (halfway towards) (three times twenty)!

Or you could analyse it like that.

I've always thought of it as "halfway towards the third twenty (from
the second)" - I wonder how Danes think about it - if indeed they ever
do?

It might depend on how they express numbers such as "two-and-a-half";
some languages have special forms along the lines of "halfway towards
three".

German only has one remnant of this: "one-and-a-half" is "anderthalb",
which I think is etymologically something like "the second half".


On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 09:15, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Another example I can give is the word "cul-de-sac" ("dead end"),

Also called "cul-de-sac" in (some varieties of) English :) (Very
different pronunciation, of course. /'kVld@,s&k/ for me, apparently
/'kVld@'s&k/ or /'kUl-/ for some others.)

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[log in to unmask]>

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