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CONLANG  July 2011, Week 3

CONLANG July 2011, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Which came first, the word for "chicken" or the word for "egg"?

From:

Sam Weston <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 19 Jul 2011 07:47:19 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (78 lines)

On an unrelated note, thank you, Gary, for mentioning Neanderthal language;
I just thought of a great creative project I could do! =D

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Sam Weston <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Honestly (and this is more scientifically than philosophically), the "egg"
> came first, because the chicken would have evolved from a different (albeit
> similar) species. How long it took beats me, but I have the feeling that the
> "true chicken," "today's chicken" came AFTER the egg, both scientifically
> and with evolutionary (if that's a word) study.
>
> Now, if you think about it linguistically, that's a different question: my
> opinion is that the chicken came first, in this case, because the chicken
> might have evolved into what it is today before our idea of language did, at
> all.
>
> If you look at it philosophically, there really is no answer; although, if
> you think about it in the sense of "ideas -> products," you'd get "the egg
> came first," if the "egg" is the idea for the product (whether (these days)
> patent-able or copyright-able). Granted, if the "chicken" was an accidental
> invention or story, then you'd get "the chicken came first."
>
> Just my two cents, after not reading the WHOLE post from Gary, but getting
> the gist.
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> A recent reply to one of my post got me to thinking about something
>> that probably can never be decided, but I thought it might be fun to
>> take a shot at it anyway. I'm sure this has already been done to one
>> extent or another, but I can't help but wonder what it would look like
>> to put words on a chronological timeline. Not with absolute dates, of
>> course, but with relative positions on the timeline. For example, we
>> know we can place "telephone" earlier on the timeline than "Internet",
>> and "fire" earlier than both, and probably "water" earlier still.
>>
>> It might be interesting to start by dividing words into groups such as
>> words a hunter-gatherer would probably know, words an early farmer or
>> animal herder would know, words a monument builder would know, etc.
>> One could start with a list of fairly common words and scratch off all
>> post-industrial revolution words, and then start shuffling them
>> around, asking of each pair: which came first? "chicken" or "egg"?
>>
>> The first question would be which are the "day-one" words? Words that
>> we can call the oldest words that must have belonged to even to most
>> primitive of people? Things like "sun" "moon", "food", "water",
>> "pain", "birth", "death", and so on. Before we had words for "pig" and
>> "goat" was there a word for "animal"? Did language start out generic
>> and then become more specific, or did it start out specific with "pig"
>> and "goat" and only later develop the concept of generalizations like
>> "animal"?
>>
>> Since this is for conlanging purposes, and just for fun, I don't feel
>> the need to be academically rigorous, so I can take flights of fancy
>> in the name of con-worlding. So the theory of language development I
>> come up with doesn't have to be true in this world, but could,
>> instead, be the basis of a proto-proto-UR-conlang or Proto-Sapiens in
>> an imaginary conworld. I think it would be fun to try to build a
>> conlang from the "first words" of a semi-sentient hunter-gatherer
>> species.  (Didn't I read something a few years back about Neanderthal
>> language?) I had in mind more a grossly over-simplified version of
>> early proto-language, perhaps more like the movie "Caveman" than like
>> real life.
>>
>> --gary
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sam Weston
>



-- 
Sam Weston

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