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CONLANG  July 2011, Week 4

CONLANG July 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: the Shwa script

From:

And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:16:50 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (94 lines)

Dirk Elzinga, On 25/07/2011 20:11:
> I'd like to turn this into a discussion thread--not because I want to reform
> English orthography, but because I think that this might have something
> potentially interesting to say about (a particular style of analysis of
> English) morphophonology and its relationship to writing.
>
> Ever since I found out about Pahawh Hmong, the notion of a demi-syllabic
> script has intrigued me. While I don't find Pahawh Hmong to be particularly
> pleasing to look at, the fact that a linguistically naive person would
> invent a demi-syllabary is suggestive of a particular view of prosodic
> structure in phonology. Your programmatic sketch has for me the same flavor
> as Pahawh Hmong (even though it wasn't proposed by a linguistic naif :-). So
> here are some questions (interleaved in your sketch):

It would be better if I was describing a thought-through scheme, instead of something I'd come up with after five or ten minutes of reflection (tho obviously many many hours about English). I had better apologize in advance that my orthographic thoughts scarcely deserve to be given serious consideration yet, and don't yet amount to a viable or coherent system.

There were a couple of guiding ideas behind my suggestion, which both boil down to avoiding having meaningless or illicit sequences of graphemes. So firstly there would be a single symbol for, say, the onset of _sty_, rather than a sequence of s+t or s+d or z+t or z+d (but its internal patterning might imply a relationship to Z and d, say). And secondly, all the complex units (i.e. "(((schwa +) onset +) peak +) coda") would be freely combinable -- something that my scheme so far fails to achieve (and possibly is unachievable).

Having now had the chance to give the matter a couple of cigars' worth of further thought, I think I would advocate a rather different system:
* symbols for onsets
* symbols for codas
* the sets of onset symbols and coda symbols can overlap, so that a symbol can belong to both sets (and sometimes only to both sets simultaneously:while _vodka_ would certainly contain a sequence of separate symbols for d and k, I'd prob make _entry_ contain a single symbol for ntr)
* coda symbols can be modified by vowel components for KIT, DRESS, TRAP, LOT, STRUT, FOOT and /@/
* onset symbols can be modified by a vowel component for /@/
* the /@/ component would be written only in environments where it contrasts with zero
* within the overarching orthographical scheme, different dialects would vary orthographically, since the orthography would reflect the phonology

In my further responses below, though, I ignore this revised scheme.

I suspect you too will have your own scheme, so I invite you to describe it.

> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:30 AM, And Rosta<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>
>> For the purposes of this email message, I've been thinking a little about
>> what an ideal orthography for English would look like (in my view), if one
>> were designing one from scratch. Tentatively, I think it would have complex
>> characters for stressed (sesqui)syllables -- ((schwa) + onset) + peak + coda
>> --
>
> Why sesquisyllables introduced by<schwa>? Is this really [ə] or is it a
> GP-style |@| element? Is the distinction sensible in this analysis? Is it to
> accomodate stressed syllables beginning with sC clusters? (If so, I have a
> follow-up question.)

I meant something closer to /ə/ than to GP [log in to unmask] IMO /@/ (i.e. what I mean by 'schwa') is a peak without a coda (i.e. something is /@/ iff it has an onset but no coda), but it is never obligatorily unrealized (tho -- relatively uncontroversially, I think -- it can often be optionally unrealized). [Reading this back, I realize this is confusing. In a word like _arras_, ending in /əs/, /s/ is coda of /a/, not of /ə/; so /s/ is a coda and /ə/ has no coda. (The genesis of this idea is Barry Heselwood's _Schwa and the phonotactics of RP English_.)]

The idea behind the optional initial schwa within the complex sesquisyllable was that within a minimal phonological word, a stressed peak (i.e. one that has a coda) licenses up to one preceding unstressed (= /@/) peak.If that schwa were not word-initial, you could write C@CV as "coda +schwa+onset+peak", but that's not possible when schwa is word-initial.

>> and complex characters for consonant clusters flanked by schwas or
>> word-boundaries, and also for suffixal -Z and -D (and -TH) too).
>
>
> Would morphological information beyond -Z and -D be important? If so, what
> happens when it conflicts with the phonology--for example, the schwas of
> <photo>  in 'photograph' and 'photography' or the ə/r alternation in
> 'cylinder', 'calendar', 'meter', etc?

The latter is straightforward -- they all end in /@r/, and /r/ is unrealized when not an onset. (I am simplifying here so as not to get bogged down in analytical detail that would make email discussion impossible.)

The thinking behind -Z and -D is that they can be added recursively to codas without an intervening schwa, so the can't readily be built into the complex coda symbols. I think they could be used for all postobstruent Z and D, to simplify the number of complex coda symbols needed. So _axe_ could be "a+K + Z", _text_ "t+e+k + Z + D".

As for photograph/photography -- it's a tough one. If you write the schwas where they are in (surface) phonology, you make it easier for children to learn to read, but harder for them to use orthography to recognize morphological relationships. On the other hand, if the orthography represented morphological forms rather than phonological forms, you'd be needing an indefinitely large number of symbols for all the morphophonemes (or whatever you want to call morphologically-conditioned phonological alternations like divine/divinity, damn/damnation), so a purely phonologically-based orthography would be far simpler and more practicable. Since accents differ on the lexical distribution of /@/, this is one of the respects in which orthography would vary with accent (just as _either_ would be written with PRICE or FLEECE symbols).

>> The syllabic characters would straightforwardly decompose into onset and
>> rime components, and the rime component would decompose into a peak
>> component plus a coda component with the same paradigm as the consonantal
>> characters', so that the formula for the characters could perhaps be
>> summarized as "(((schwa +) onset +) peak +) coda".
>
> Your formula has "(((schwa +) onset +) peak +) coda" but you also describe a
> basic division between onset and rime. So shouldn't it be ((schwa +) onset
> +) ((peak +) coda)? Does it matter?

My thinking was that the symbols are for:

schwa+onset+peak+coda
onset+peak+coda
peak+coda  [-- always word-initial]
coda

I don't see how this scheme covers non-coda onsets of schwa, though. It had better be allowed to die quietly.

>> But the onset and coda components would not all simply consist of
>> concatenations of elements all drawn from the same set, though they would
>> have patterned internal structure to show their relationship to the other
>> units.
>
> What are the salient properties for this patterned internal
> structure--place/manner of articulation, etc? Or something else?

At the least the patterning would reflect the segments that compose the onset and cluster components, so that e.g. -lm and -lk would have in common a graphical element that marks the -l- they have in common. Having further patterning reflecting subsegmental components would be nice, but not necessary; and it would also be impractical since there is less consensus on subsegmental components (or, if there is consensus, I very much don't subscribe to it -- which is another story for another time).

--And.

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December 1998, Week 5
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