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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  July 2011, Week 4

CONLANG July 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Translations please: "Are you a conlanger?"

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 27 Jul 2011 07:24:43 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (134 lines)

--- On Mon, 7/25/11, Virginia Keys <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> >> I haven't really thought about metaphors much yet
> outside
> >> of ones that arise from multiple meanings of a
> single word.
> >
> >> Loh Kay Duhmeht Tuak
> >> Means-of-communication (is) Clay/variable
> (you)-with
> >> perhaps?
> >> Language is clay with (you)?
> >>
> >> Is this any clearer? Tell me what you think.
> >
> >I like the imagery here, but I think it could still be
> interpreted as
> >meaning nothing more than poetry or song or some other
> kind of literature.
> >
> >I look at it like this: poets and composers and potters
> all use pre-
> >existing tools and techniques to create a work of art.
> Conlangers, as
> >artists, are quite different, since we create new
> languages and cultures.
> >In other words, we creat entirely new media, new tools
> and new techniques
> >with which to create works of art.
> >
> >It would be like a composer *not* sitting down at a
> piano and writing a
> >classical concerto, but rather getting out in the
> workshop, building an
> >entirely novel *kind* of musical instrument, inventing
> a whole new *class*
> >of music that works with the instrument and then
> writing the music itself.
> >Not many composers do this! Not many poets or writers
> do what we do either.
> >
> >So, as far as clay is concerned: to extend the
> metaphor, your potter would
> >have to be devising a whole new kind or formulation of
> clay; and then
> >new designs of pottery. I don't see how that could be
> extrapolated from
> >the above query.
> >
> >I could also see interpreting the above as the result
> of some kind of
> >speech or mental disorder. In other words, it could be
> taken as an insult.
> >Or perhaps as an accusation of lying. Are not
> politicians master potters
> >of language?
> >
> >Would it simply be possible to say "language is a thing
> creatable for you?"
> >
> >
> >Padraic
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, I finally coined a word for
> craftsperson, so an
> alternative would be to say:
> 
> Rawn Lohpaw Tuak
> (You are a) Craftsperson Language-of Perhaps?
> Are you a craftsperson of language?
> 
> Perhaps it's a perspective difference. 

Perhaps so!

> In my mind, Language is our medium to
> work with. We don't create it so much as we rearrange and
> reshape it, giving
> it new forms and appearances.

Agreed -- we don't create "language" as such, any more than I could create
anew "music" or "visual art". What we do, that other writers don't do, is
create new media to express things in.

> Writers and poets (I am one) do the same
> thing, but in a very different way, perhaps on a different
> level.

I think many of us hereabouts are writers after a fashion. Whereas Dickens
and Orwell use an already existing language, we create a new one, with new
metaphors and new turns of phrase and different ways of saying something.

> As a
> conlanger, I work with the fundamentals of language
> (sounds, grammer, etc),
> weaving them together into new combinations. As a writer, I
> work with more
> with words and ideas, combining them in new ways. 

Indeed. And as a writer-conlanger, you do both at the same time. Or can,
should you choose!

> So I would render "Are you a writer?" as:
> 
> Rawn Mishpaw Tuak,
> 
> where Mish means both word(s) and idea(s). Ironically it
> also means food, so
> the question could also mean "Are you a cook?" 

I like that sort of occurrence in a language! Are there any interesting
sayings or cultural ephemera that make use of this kind of conjunction?

> However, these are isolated
> sentences, and one of my purposes with this language is to
> test the limits
> of the ability of the human mind to use context and
> assumption to clarify.
> That is, I am content with some degree of vagueness.

That I have no problem with! If the intention is vagueness, then I think
you've succeeded! Now, I don't really know whether the person is a cook
or a writer or a maker of languages!

As far as the human mind's ability to assume and clarify, I don't think
there's any doubt that I could make an assumption, if given a text to
translate.

Mind the badgers.

> --Virginia Keys

Padraic

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