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CONLANG  July 2011, Week 4

CONLANG July 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: the Shwa script

From:

Sam Stutter <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:06:27 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (46 lines)

I've been working on a theory that some people *do* differentiate by aspiration rather than voicing, it's just that many people hear /t/ vs /d/ over /t/ vs /tʰ/ because they mentally assume that's the difference they would hear. It's either aspiration or aspiration in combination with something else (specifically, that something else is the difference between RP English plosives and certain varieties of Indian English plosives, which has a name I can't remember).

Also, don't some varieties of Irish English produce "th" as /tʰ/? Contrast "that" and "tat". (This has always struck me as odd, AFAIK the Gaelic realisation of "th" is /h/ ("máthair"))

On 27 Jul 2011, at 20:22, And Rosta wrote:

> Peter Bleackley, On 26/07/2011 16:28:
>> staving And Rosta:
>>> How would you decide which phonetic distinctions to ignore? For
>>> English, for example, aspiration is more important than voicing (on
>>> plosives).
>> Your arguments for that have never convinced me, And. After all,
>> aspiration is more restricted in its distribution than voicing.
>> Consider the following-
>> There are environments in which [t_h] and [d] contrast, and [t] is
>> forbidden. (Stressed onsets)
>> There are environments in which [t_h] and [d] are both forbidden, and
>> only [t] occurs (after /s/ in onsets).
>> There are environments in which [t] and [d] contrast, and [t_h] is
>> forbidden. (Unstressed onsets, codas)
>> There are NO environments in which [t_h] and [t] contrast, and [d] is
>> forbidden.
> 
> These facts might warrant the conclusions you draw for them, but I think they're not the correct facts for varieties of English. For most varieties of English, I'd say the correct facts are broadly as follows (-- I assume an analysis in which codas may simultaneously be onsets):
> 
> Noncoda onset /b/ is [b,p] (the relative preference for [b] vs [p] varying by accent, [b] being e.g. a feature of some traditional Northern accents)
> Noncoda onset /p/ is [p_h]
> 
> Nononset coda /b/ is normally [p] but can also be [b], and occurs without shortening of the previous vowel
> Nononset coda /p/ is normally [p], but can also be [p_h], and occurs with shortening of the previous vowel
> Both [b] and [p_h] would sound hyperarticulated -- so possible, but not normal-sounding.
> 
> Onset coda /b/ and /p/ are as nononset coda /b/ and /p/, but are relatively more likely to be [b] and [p_h] respectively
> 
> /d/ and /t/ are similar, but coda /t/ is more different and more subject to variation among dialects; in England, the two dominant patterns are (a) [?] when coda, (b) [?] when nononset coda (and [t_h] otherwise). (Onset coda /t/ becomes /d/ in many dialects, and /r/ in many dialects too, which complicates the pattern of variation still further.)
> 
> Even though the realizations differ among dialects, the general pattern is fairly constant. E.g. in NE coda /p/ is [?p]; in Scouse, noncoda onset plosives are affricated and coda plosives are spirantized.
> 
> For noncoda onset plosives, the primary realizational signature of fortisness is therefore aspiration. For coda plosives, primary realizational signature of fortisness is vowel shortening. For the fricative phonemes, the primary realizational signature of fortisness is voicelessness, and also, in codas, vowel shortening.
> 
> In any sequence of obstruents within an onset or coda, only the first can be fortis. As proof of this one can observe that [?] (/t/) cannot follow an obstruent. In codas you can get /sd, zd, tz, dz/. In noncoda onsets there is no fortis/lenis contrast at all in consonant clusers (other than Cy-), and I am undecided as to whether e.g. st-, sn- should be analysed as /sd, sn/ or /zd, zn/ (since it is realized as /s/ is but if there is fortisness it is noncontrastive -- a better theory than the one I currently have would probably not require so seemingly vacuous an analytical choice).
> 
> I should add that when listening to old recordings of acrolectal speakers born in the 1800s, one is often struck by unaspirated realizations of noncoda onset /p,t,k/. (To my ears it often sounds affected and elocuted, but that's very probably a misprojection on my part.) Hence it is possible that when the first phonemic analyses of English were being done, on the basis of the acrolectal accents of the analysts, it was indeed voicelessness that was the primary realizational signature.
> 
> --And.

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