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CONLANG  July 2011, Week 4

CONLANG July 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Which came first, the word for "chicken" or the word for "egg"?

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:05:32 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (92 lines)

--- On Thu, 7/21/11, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> > Words like "chicken" and "egg" certainly predate all
> written history and
> > quite possibly stretch back into such remote ages that
> we would now have
> > no hope of accomplishing this task.
> 
> 
> Even so  think that in some cases a compelling case
> could be made for
> certain word pairs. For example, it seems reasonable to
> hypothesize
> that early man occasionally raided nests for wild bird eggs
> for food.
> And it seems equally likely that this happened before the
> domestication of the wild bird that eventually, through
> selective
> breeding, became the domestic chicken. That being the case
> I think
> might be reasonable to hypothesize that the word "egg" came
> before the
> word "chicken". As for the pairs "duck/egg", or
> "goose/egg", those are
> probably impossible even to make reasonable guesses at.

Okay -- I certainly agree if you're specifically pairing egg with
"(domestic) chicken". The Font of Knowledge hints that chickens were
domesticated sometime between 3ish and 6ish thousand years BC. I would
hazard the guess that some word for "egg" predated some word for
"(domestic) chicken".

> Using the best theories we have about human migration we
> could
> probably also say that the first words for "mud" and "dust"
> are
> earlier than the first words for "snow" and "ice". Just as
> "grass"
> might have come before "pine".
> 
> Considering that for a very long time only the crudest of
> stone tools
> and implements were fashioned by chipping, it was probably
> a long time
> after a word for "tree" that the generalization "wood" came
> into
> existence, (not to mention a word for "board") and a word
> for "cloth"
> certainly came long after the words for "hide" or "fur".

Well, fire is pretty old, too, so they might have had a word for "wood"
(tree suitable for burning) as opposed to "tree" (tree located
inconveniently far from camp and therefore unsuitable for burning).

> So while I don't think we can ever put even approximate
> dates on
> words, I think we might be able to put quite a few of them
> into a
> reasonable chronological order. 

Or rather, one of scores of arguable chronological orders! I certainly
don't disagree with the general premise, mind.

> Archeologists refer to the process as
> "seriation". I was once involved in writing some software
> to do
> seriation of pottery shards for a university where I
> worked. It's
> fascinating stuff. So what would the process be called for
> seriation
> of words? I don't think "linguistic seriation" is quite
> right because
> that sounds like it's trying to put languages into a
> series.

"Lexical seriation".

> Nor would
> we be trying to put actual words in a series. Instead, the
> attempt
> would be to put concepts into a chronological series that
> reflected
> their relative introduction to human language as a whole.
> How about
> "semantic seriation"?

Sounds good!

> --gary

Padraic

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