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CONLANG  August 2011, Week 1

CONLANG August 2011, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Natlanginess of Esperanto (was: Is KÄ “ len cyan or green?)

From:

And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 1 Aug 2011 10:19:20 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (72 lines)

Excellent suggestion! Let me preemptively add a distinction between actual
parabularity, which Esperanto has and most conlangs lack, and fictional
parabularity, which (for example) most artlangs have but most other conlangs
lack.

,, And.

On 1 Aug 2011 02:29, "neo gu" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 17:45:33 -0600, Dirk Elzinga
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Since what seems to be at issue is the degree to which the language
> has/is *parole* and not just *langue*, derive an adjective from
> 'parole' and then nominalize that adjective. If I knew French, I'd do it
> myself :-). (It'd translate as something like "speechiness", I suppose.)

parabularity?

>On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Jim Henry
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 1:51 PM, Jörg Rhiemeier
<[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> > On Saturday 30 July 2011 23:33:56, Jim Henry wrote:
>> >> This property, of being defined by usage rather than standards
>> >> documents, is a matter of degree, like the other properties we
talked
>> >> about recently.  Esperanto has it in a greater degree than
Lojban,
>> .....
>>
>> > Exactly.  There is a scale of "natlanginess" where uncodified
>> > vernaculars rate 100% and conlangs without an actual _parole_
>> > rate 0%; on such a scale, standard languages (such as French
>>
>> What, then, is the best term for this property?  "Naturalistic" is
>> obviously wrong, for reasons beyond the fact that it's used in two
>> other senses already in glossopoetics, and "natlanginess" probably
>> isn't much better, both because Ray misunderstood my original post
>> using that coinage, and because "natlanginess" seems more suited
to
>> describe a whole cluster of properties that the typical natlang has
>> and many or all conlangs lack -- this property but also several
>> others, including "naturalism" in the artlang sense, and a history of
>> having evolved from an unknown proto-language lost in the mists of
>> time.  (Conceivably, Esperanto or some other conlang that's spoken
by
>> enough people for enough time, lasting through a collapse and rise
of
>> civilizations, could acquire that property too; and long before that,
>> it would probably acquire a high degree of artlang-naturalism too.)
>>
>> It's not simply a matter of number of speakers or size of corpus;
>> conceivably a conlang with far fewer speakers than Esperanto could
>> have this property in a greater degree than E-o, if its speakers no
>> longer base their usage on the original conlanger's documents,
having
>> no language academy nor any equivalent of the Fundamento or the
Lojban
>> standards documents.  In practice, I don't think any of the conlangs
>> with fewer speakers than Esperanto have this property in quite as
>> great a degree as E-o, though Ido and Interlingua may come close,
and
>> maybe Toki Pona as well despite having far fewer speakers.
>>
>> --
>> Jim Henry
>> http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
>>

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