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CONLANG  August 2011, Week 1

CONLANG August 2011, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Labial lateral (was: the Shwa script)

From:

Matthew Boutilier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 1 Aug 2011 09:04:48 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (81 lines)

>
> perhaps of interest:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguolabial_consonant
> i tried using these in a conlang once.  sounded kind of cool - you hear
> e.g. the plosive and think, whoa, was that /p/ or /t/?  there isn't a
> straight-up lateral glide listed on the page but there's no reason that it
> doesn't work, as far as i can tell.
>

but, then, i suppose this is a wholly different place of articulation from
bilabial or labio-dental.  so never mind.  the side-lips thing fits all the
requirements for bilabial and lateral, though.  it's a bit tougher to
produce out of both sides simultaneously, but then again it is not unusual
for lateral non-glides to be uttered half-assedly so to speak, out of one
side at a time.  (there is quite an awesome hadith - written tradition about
the prophet muhammad - relaying that he pronounced the
then-lateral-fricative ض Daad out of both sides of his tongue, i.e. not
lazily.  i can't find a citation at the moment.)

> i tried using these in a conlang once
>
RIP, by the by.

matt

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Matthew Boutilier <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> perhaps of interest:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguolabial_consonant
> i tried using these in a conlang once.  sounded kind of cool - you hear
> e.g. the plosive and think, whoa, was that /p/ or /t/?  there isn't a
> straight-up lateral glide listed on the page but there's no reason that it
> doesn't work, as far as i can tell.
>
> matt
>
>   On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 8:45 AM, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> On 31/07/2011 20:26, And Rosta wrote:
>>
>>> Is the labial lateral articulatorily impossible? The IPA
>>> chart says it is, but it's quite easy to create a
>>> midsagittal occlusion with the lips - talking out the
>>> corner(s) of the mouth - and the sound is quite
>>> distinctive. It occurs in the conlang Liva (which was
>>> mentioned on the List recently), in the paradigm slot
>>> where labials intersect with laterals.
>>>
>>
>> This is correct. In version 2.1 (1997) there is a brief
>> explanation of the sound, but [w] is allowed as an easier
>> to pronounce allophone of the sound.
>>
>> In version 4.2 (2002), Claudio gave a fuller description of
>> the sound:
>> {quote}
>> the easiest way to realize it seems to be by the tongue's
>> tip between lips, either in the middle or at one side: in
>> this position imagine to pronounce a common [l]; a more
>> rigorous alternative, as it does not involve the tongue and
>> is hence truly "labial", would be to put lips near only in
>> their central part and leaving two spaces on the sides,
>> though it seems a difficult position, or to put them near
>> on a side and leave a space on the other side.
>> {/quote}
>>
>> Also there is no mention of an "easier to pronounce"
>> allophone in version 4.2
>>
>> --
>> Ray
>> ==============================**====
>> http://www.carolandray.plus.**com <http://www.carolandray.plus.com/>
>> ==============================**====
>> Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
>> There's none too old to learn.
>> [WELSH PROVERB]
>>
>
>

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