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CONLANG  August 2011, Week 1

CONLANG August 2011, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Perfectivity of verbs of being

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Thu, 4 Aug 2011 12:21:31 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (72 lines)

On 03/08/2011 22:39, Philip Newton wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 21:42, R A
> Brown<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>> The ancient verb "to be" was very defective - it had
>> only imperfective forms. I believe the same applies in
>> modern Greek.
>
> True; though the perfective forms of "to exist" (υπάρχω)
> are sometimes considered suppletive perfective forms of
> "to be".

Interesting point. In the ancient language ὑπάρχω also, of
course, had both imperfective and perfective forms.  But
"to exist" is only meaning of "to be"; "to exist" could
clearly have both aspects. "Dodos was existed on Mauritius"
- perfective; just a plain statement without 'looking into
the black box'. "Dodos used to exist on Mauritius" -
imperfective; we have looked inside the black box and seen
that their existence on the island was habitual and went on
for some considerable time.

But I think the thread is more concerned with "to be" in its
more common use as a copula. I'm not sure that aspects has
meaning with regard to a copula.
==========================================================

On 04/08/2011 05:29, Nico Baier wrote:
[snip]
 >
 > I think languages vary on this point, as would probably
 > be expected. There are languages in which perfective is
 > the default stative aspect, and imperfective coerces
 > other meanings out of stative verbs.

That sort of makes sense.

 > There are also
 > languages which do the exact opposite, and have
 > perfective aspect coerce non-stative semantics in stative
 > verbs. For example, you could have have perfective coerce
 > inceptive/inchoative meaning from statives. So a verb
 > meaning 'be blue' would have the meaning 'become blue' in
 > the perfective.

That doesn't make sense to me. The inceptive or inchoative
aspect is surely making reference to the internal structure
of the state expressed by the verb and, therefore, a
subcategory of the imperfective aspect.

 > This is certainly attested, but I can't
 > remember at the moment a language that does this..

I won't deny its attestation, but I would like to know more
details.

It seems to me that those languages (or, possibly, the 
description of those languages) are confusing the super-
ordinate aspectual categories perfective~imperfective with
the other pair of super-ordinate aspectual categories
stative~dynamic.

Interesting.  (Thinks: I really must read Comrie on this)

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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