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CONLANG  August 2011, Week 1

CONLANG August 2011, Week 1

Subject:

Evolving towards Semitoid, erat: ablaut diachronics

From:

Basilius <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:01:12 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (167 lines)

On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 19:30:26 -0400, Alex Fink wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:27:49 -0400, Basilius wrote:
>
>>Also, for an example of a complex (Semitic-style) apophony in a
>>con-diachronic scenario (a never-finished project of mine), you may check
>>this old thread:
>>
>>http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0109D&L=CONLANG&P=R17867&D=1&T=0
>>http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0111D&L=CONLANG&P=R1375&D=1&T=0
>>http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0111D&L=CONLANG&D=1&T=0&P=7581
>
>Hm, some interesting choices.
>
>I guess the primary thing that strikes me strangely is your post-vocalic
>differentiations (i,a,u)_C, for both phonetic and feelish reasons.  I
>suppose you did the diversification to maintain as much root distinctiveness
>as you could?

The idea was that the root consonants should not be subject to any new
alternations, as much as possible (for root alternations inherited from the
ancestor are already too many - that is, for a "Semitoid" language). (I am
not sure if by "root distinctiveness" you meant exactly that.) 

This could be achieved (with obvious reservations) only if the final
consonant in the root could be affected by only the preceding vowel (for a
following vowel is too often part of an affix); it looked more natural with
the same types of influences working on suffixes; and three seemed to be the
*maximum* number of vowels needed to preserve substantial part of Latin
morphology. 

>The phonetic reason is that the best I can make of the general scheme for
>these colourings (and there should certainly be a general scheme!) has (i)
>as a palatalising element, (u) a labialising one, and (a) ... mostly a
>leniting one?  But lenitions of consonants don't usually condition on
>quality of adjacent vowels at all.  

Well, no. That is, (i)_C is indeed some kind of palatalization, but (u)_C is
mostly velarization, and (a)_C is neither. Also, with sibilants (and maybe
laterals) (u)_C and (a)_C might be opposed as retroflex vs. low alveolar
(cf. the "ruki rule" in satem IE languages).

I didn't want labialization, for labialized consonants would realistically
interact with vowel qualities a lot, and wouldn't produce anything
particularly interesting in the end. That is, so finely tuned interaction of
vowels across syllable boundaries wouldn't look natural with the intervening
labialized (palatalized, etc.) consonants not affecting it in any way.
Therefore, I preferred the scenario where such consonants just didn't exist
by the moment when the more complicated part of vowel assimilations began;
and it is relatively easy to devise palatalization and velarization mutating
into something else which is distinct from the pre-existing PoA's, but with
labialization it is difficult to obtain anything different but bilabials -
which are not distinct from what Latin already has. 

I guess you got the impression of (a)_C working as lenition from the
treatment of (a)_b and (i)_b? In fact, the idea was that at first /b/
becomes a glide *except* when palatalized; note that the distinction (a)_b
:: (u)_b is not particularly important in morphology (and this was in fact
the main consideration in choosing a specific reflex for the other internal
consonants as well). Also, with *glides* in particular, different outcomes
after open vs. closed vowels seem plausible to me, so there remains some
freedom of further tuning if I need it.

>I probably would've wanted to take (a)
>to pharyngealise instead, with Arabic-style inventories as inspiration.
>(And then shift the coloured phonemes around in whole POA groups to the
>greatest extent I could manage.)

I didn't want tongue root settings to be involved for the same reason as
with labialization. I believe the Arabic "emphatics" emerged quite recently
(from ejectives or whatever), and in dialects that retain them they do
interact with vowels a lot, and my task was to obtain something relatively
transparent, without extra complications (the result will have enough messy
bits anyway).

>The feelish reason is that Semitic seems marvelously resistant, presumably
>on account of its morphology, to any conditioned mergers of consonants, i.e.
>to anything that makes it look like two phonemically distinct nonzero Cs are
>alternating.  

Yes, and this is my favorite example of sound change being conditioned by
morphological techniques used by the language. 

But my project was about **achieving** such Semitoid condition, which
appears to be a very different thing, for those morphological techniques
just aren't there yet at the moment when the consonant alternations emerge;
and in the final condition, they shouldn't look like transparent
alternations anymore. 

>(Modern Hebrew is the obvious counterexample but its current
>phonology is really an importation of German's.)  

Mmmm, I don't think so. The begadkefat alternations also work in Aramaic
(and it's not just Biblical Aramaic that has them); if any external
influence was in play, it should have come from this source in the first
place. But even this may be unnecessary, for some spirantization seems to
happen in late forms of Akkadian as well, i. e. it could be an areal thing
(ultimately, one might explain spirantizations in Greek by the same local
"vogue").

>The consonant alternation
>traces that these changes leave, e.g. of the _t_ in your first conjugation
>table in endings like _-a:tis_, feel extremely un-Semitic to me.

True, these don't have very straightforward parallels in more conservative
Semitic languages. But the idea was, rather, that (e. g.) /j/, /z/ and /r/
(as reflexes of internal -t-) work more like different suffixes. A vague
parallel to this could be /t/, /?/ and zero as (the consonant component of)
feminizing suffixes in Arabic: the choice depends on the vocalization model
of the derivand, but since no such alternation ever affects root consonants,
there's no gain in describing this as a morphonological alternation rather
than allomorphy. (With my project, there's still some parallelism in
choosing between the different reflexes of e. g. _-Vtis_ and _-Vtum_ etc.,
but even this seems to permit a description without alternations, for the
set of morphemes involved is limited.)

Also, obtaining a natural-looking and functionally balanced system was in
fact a higher priority than imitating details of Semitic morphological
patterns. There are a lot of features which my scenario fails to imitate
anyway: everything involving prefixes, root consonant gemination, long
vowels alternating with short ones, etc. etc. 

In particular, one problem I had to address was vowels in inflections being
word-final in some forms but word-internal in others (e. g. in verbs:
_-a:s_, _-at_ vs. _-a:mus_, _-a:tis_, also _-a:bam_, _-a:tum_ etc.). To
preserve the difference between (e. g.) conjugation classes in most forms, I
needed the quality of the internal vowel to be reflected *somewhere*; and
having it encoded in the following consonant seemed a natural choice, for it
also helped the mechanics of sound changes in suffixes to be in some
conformity with those working on non-initial root consonants.  

>Relatedly, for things like getting rid of potential quadriliterals, [...]

This wasn't a high priority; Semitic languages allow for a lot of
quadriliteral roots, and C4 in my Semitoid language will very often look
like a dummy suffix, due to lots of phoneme mergers (with reflexes of
consonants and clusters that do indeed occur in suffixes).

[...] >it feels
>more Semitoid to me to approach the problem not phonologically but rather
>with morphological reshapings.  E.g. for one, frequent Latin suffixes could
>just stay in place in the templates, like the Semitic m- prefix does, and
>retain the root / suffix division.  After setting those aside, and after
>your cluster reductions, there probably aren't very many Latin bases that
>are quadriliteral, so I'd want to let morphological analogy just truncate
>them to fit the root canon as needed (starting with dropping a glide / weak
>consonant if there is one in any position).

I am not sure I understand your idea without examples. Can you give a couple?

>Oh yeah, and that vowel change you called artificial?  It's totally
>artificial :-p

You mean, this one?

>> u: {... I} > ö: > Iw
>> i: {... U} > ü: > Uj

Honestly, I think it's totally plausible by itself (think of possible
diphthongizations at the early stages); what may look artificial is that the
result fits so nicely with the whole vowel alternation machinery. 

But maybe I should change this bit, indeed, to include just one very
predictable irregularity :)

-- Basilius

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March 2007, Week 5
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 2
March 2007, Week 1
February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
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October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
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September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
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August 2006, Week 3
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July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
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May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
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August 2001, Week 3
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July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
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October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
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September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
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July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
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May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
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September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
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June 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
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March 1999, Week 3
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February 1999, Week 5
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January 1999, Week 5
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January 1999, Week 3
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
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November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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