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CONLANG Home

CONLANG  August 2011, Week 1

CONLANG August 2011, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Perfectivity of verbs of being

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Thu, 4 Aug 2011 20:57:22 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (68 lines)

On 04/08/2011 18:38, Nico Baier wrote:
[snip]
>>> There are also languages which do the exact opposite,
>>> and have perfective aspect coerce non-stative
>>> semantics in stative verbs. For example, you could
>>> have have perfective coerce inceptive/inchoative
>>> meaning from statives. So a verb meaning 'be blue'
>>> would have the meaning 'become blue' in the
>>> perfective.
>>
>> That doesn't make sense to me. The inceptive or
>> inchoative aspect is surely making reference to the
>> internal structure of the state expressed by the verb
>> and, therefore, a subcategory of the imperfective
>> aspect.
>>
>>> This is certainly attested, but I can't remember at
>>> the moment a language that does this..
>>
>> I won't deny its attestation, but I would like to know
>> more details.
>
> Yeah, I've found it odd before as well. Apparently this
> happens in Mandarin and Spanish (This is also coming from
> the Cover dissertation that I cited above, though she
> cites Comrie 1976). But just from quick looking around,
> it seems like there's a lot of disagreement on this point
> for Mandarin. For example, this paper
> (http://www.lingref.com/cpp/tls/2004/paper1510.pdf)
> claims that Mandarin perfective le can't appear in
> sentences with unbound states. So who the hell knows

Right - I'll read the paper. I had meant to look at
Mandarin and will do so when I have time - hopefully,
I'll can find time tomorrow.

>
>> It seems to me that those languages (or, possibly, the
>> description of those languages) are confusing the
>> super- ordinate aspectual categories
>> perfective~imperfective with the other pair of
>> super-ordinate aspectual categories stative~dynamic.
>
> What do you mean by 'confusing' exactly? Do you mean that
> the language itself is conflating those two things
> together, or that the analysis is confused as to the
> nature of the system?

I meant that either is a possibility. I think one must know
the language and also the particular analysis.

> The interaction between lexical aspect and grammatical
> aspect is something i find absolutely fascinating,
> especially because of the degree to which languages vary
> on such points.

That's so with many different aspects of linguistics 
[forgive the pun]     :)

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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September 2002, Week 1
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