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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  September 2011, Week 2

CONLANG September 2011, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Chıt' Language

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Sun, 11 Sep 2011 19:34:59 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (123 lines)

On 10/09/2011 20:40, mert köseoğlu wrote:
> Hello! I am working on the "when and where" questions but
> I don't think I need all these for now. It is a conlang
> which is thought that old people used to speak.

I would have thought that 'when' was fairly important. It is
still not clear to me, at least, who these "old people" are.
  In your first email you mentioned "Proto-Cro Magnon or
Homos erectus."  If we are talking about some group of _Homo
sapiens_ that predates Cro Magnon then were talking about a
language that can (and will) have sounds found among
natlangs today.

If, however, we are going much further back to _Homo
erectus_ then we are in uncharted territory and we may
indeed have some strange sounds.

[snip]
> ........................I wanted to have some comments
> whether good or bad about the LANGUAGE part.
>> You should also read about how languages work and how
>> to design languages.

> I think I know enough about the languages.
===========================================================

On 10/09/2011 22:56, Patrick Dunn wrote:
[much snipped because it really all boils down to this]

>> ñı -Similiar to ıñ
>>
>
> Similar to "no clear idea" is "no clear idea."  Why
> aren't
you using
> linguistic terminology, since in another message you
> said
you know
> linguistics very well?  Most of us, even amateurs and
beginners, know it
> well enough to understand it better than these vague
instructions.

AMEN!

I could make little or no sense out of the vague and
ambiguous instructions. If Mert truly "know[s] enough about
languages", then surely he must have some awareness of IPA
and/or technical terms such as plosive/ occlusive,
fricative, lateral etc.

I'll just confine myself to two points from Sam's email:
==========================================================

On 10/09/2011 23:47, Sam Stutter wrote:
[snip]
>>> nd-put your tongue under your upper teeth and than
>>> take it down.
>>>
>>
>> When I do this, it makes no sound at all, of course.
>
> I don't know much about clicks, etc, but I might say /ɗ/
dental alveolar voiced implosive? Or maybe /|/ dental click?

I see nothing in Mert's description to suggest clicks or
implosion.  If I simply put my tongue under my upper teeth
and take it down, I get no sound (nor will anyone else).
But if I add a vowel sound, I get a dental lateral.

[snip]

>>> ***Notice that ı letters don't have dots.It's hard
>>> for English
speakers.But there are
>>> some examples like õ in Estonian, ı in Turkish, ы in
Russian.It's more
>>> likely a "closed e"
>>>
>>
>> Then that is a vowel.  And not dotting i's is not
particularly hard for
>> English speakers.  I do it all the time, when I'm
>> writing
too quickly.
>
> Hard to type, certainly. I am told that in Turkish this
> is
pronounced /ɯ/ (back close unrounded).

Yes, I assumed Mert meant that English speakers find
difficulty in _pronouncing_ the Turkish ı, not in writing an
ı without a dot!

> The Estonian is /ɤ/. I discussed it in my dissertation.
Hardly like a closed /e/. That would be /i/... As in "heat"
in English.

...and isn't Russian ы [ɨ] (a high unrounded central vowel)?
Actually, although Turkish ı is given as /ɯ/ in text books,
I understand it is quite centralized so I guess it's not
dissimilar from Russian ы.

But, yes, Estonian õ is the back unrounded mid vowel /ɤ/.
For the past 60 years I've understood "closed e" to mean [e]
(high mid unrounded front vowel)!

Yes, very confusing.
=========================================================

I'm sorry.  It may be that senility is setting in, but I am
confused as to the purpose of the conlang and even more
confused by its description.

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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