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CONLANG  September 2011, Week 4

CONLANG September 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Inside jokes

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 26 Sep 2011 23:13:02 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (204 lines)

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Koppa Dasao <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> As I've receive what I will consider a request for a discussion on why
> I've used the word љејzа for both the terms 'atheism' and 'god hater'
> by the list owner, I'll give one.
>
> Atheism as such I find a quite acceptable view, as it's a choice made
> based upon available evidence. There's no evidence to prove the
> existence of a Creator/God in the real word, even though there are
> certain feature hinting toward the existence of such a person.

In other words, two faces of the same coin: both arguments lack evidence
and both are based therefore on faith. One, faith that God exists without
evidence; the other, faith that God doesn't exist without evidence.

I've got some notes for a story where a traveller ends up stranded in a
city where the local faith is, in fact, an avowed Atheism. He finds himself
in the local church where they sing hymns like "No God Was Ever A
Mighty Fortress" and the preacher rails against the feeble mindedness
of baseless theism. On the street, he hears someone sneeze and offers, quite
innocently, his accustomed "God bless you" but winds up in trouble with
the local constabulary for the minor breach of propriety. His solicitor pleads
with the justiciar that "...he is but an ignorant foreigner, oblivious to the
superiority of our ways. He is to be pitied and excused with mercy; not
severely punished for his unknowing."

> There are however also some atheist that in addition to being atheist
> are anti-theist, or god haters. These aren't true atheist as others
> have mentioned.

The two terms are not synonymous, and one of them is quite
inflamatory! Being against something doesn't necessarily mean one
hates the thing one is against. For example, I favor a position of
anti-religion at present. This doesn't mean I hate religion and its every
intrusion into the life of Man. It means that I disagree with the religious
approach to God; that one doesn't find God by doing this or that
ritual activity. It doesn't mean that I hate all ritual religious activity nor
that I hate people who engage in it. In other words, anti-religionist
=/= religion hater.

Consider this: I listen to radio preachers of a Sunday railing away against
non-Christian religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) By denying the divine
nature of the Hindu's gods, are not these preachers engaging in god-hatred?
Certainly god-hatred of gods other than their own! Yet they claim to a one that
they love their own God!

> Hating something you've rejected as non-existing
> should be impossible.

I hold that nothing is impossible. However, such a position would be
quite absurd if true. Irrational in other words. If you believe that gods do
not exist, why waste energy hating them? If gods *really* don't exist,
then *really* why waste energy hating them!?

> But still, some atheist hold to the claim that
> all other faiths than their "atheism" should be abolished, making them
> no better than those that for the sake of their God, would slaughter
> millions to cleans the world from unbelievers.

Not quite. The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Those Atheists who
make such claims have every right to do so. They do not run into any
trouble until they *act* on their claims.

> Within the conworld where the Illomi lives, and more precisely within
> Illte, the religious belief is that there exist multiple gods, a
> belief not shared by the author, though. By using the same term for
> both atheism and god hater, I'm hinting to the possibility that there
> is a certain religious unrest between those believing in polytheism
> and those that reject theism.

To be honest, using one term for vastly different perspectives strikes me
as naive or at least uninformed. Or perhaps just down right provocative?
I certainly appreciate your working on a very difficult topic like religious
unrest and strife! I don't think you do your attempt any favours by lumping
the two together, though. Or am I missing a key point?

> As for developing this "problem", I've
> got no interest in doing so at the present time, although some
> sentences has already been made to further indicate said "problem".
>
> As for myself personally... There is only one thing that I'm
> fanatically against, and that's fanatics. I think that should sum up
> quite well what I think about people making a case for discussing
> whether or not the usage of a term in a conlang having two possible
> contradicting meanings.

??

> I've got just one word for such an interest, and that word was used by
> two atheists, Penn Jilette and Teller, as a name for a TV-series:
> Bullshit!
>
> Koppa Dasao

Padraic


> ___
> Гłо ƕамас інтер Мор δегај ƕамас ін моłі не ƒłемітеłі, мітеłі.
> Gro hamaz intex Mox degaj hamaz in mori ne fremiteri, miteri.
> May they in Death receive the peace they didn't get in dying.
> ___
> Sent with GMail
> www.gmail.com
>
>
>
> 2011/9/26 Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>:
>> On 26 September 2011 11:35, Koppa Dasao <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, having asked for a inside joke, and gotten one for free, let's
>>> talk about inside jokes a bit.
>>>
>>> Does your conlang contain inside jokes?
>>> Is it common to have inside jokes in a conlang?
>>>
>>>
>> I used not to have inside jokes in my languages. I guess I felt it was
>> straining some kind of suspension of disbelief. Nowadays, however, I find it
>> less of a problem, especially in a priori languages (after all, if different
>> natlangs can have funny collisions, why not conlangs?).
>>
>> In Maggel, inside jokes are a way of life, but I always try to make them as
>> inconspicuous as possible (it's all part of the language's way to hit people
>> on the head when they least expect it :) ). For instance, the word for "dog"
>> is _biirh_ [ˈbɪç]. Not much of an inside joke until you learn its oblique
>> form _biirdh_ [ˈbɪçtʃ] :) . Another one is the word for "captain, leader,
>> chief": _rajmeshabgi_ [ˈɹɑ̃ŋ.ə.ʃəɪ̯] (more exactly: "captains", the base
>> form is plural). What's the joke? The word is feminine, and means literally
>> "ship's wives" (_rajm an eoshabgi_ [ˈɹɑ̃ŋ ə̃n ɛˈʃaɪ̯] in Maggel), due to the
>> word for "ship" being masculine :) . And then there's _imuohf_ [ˈmbuː]ː
>> "cows" (also a word whose base form is plural, like all feminine nouns). Its
>> specific plural is _imhoo_, which is a great joke in writing but less in
>> pronunciation ([ˈmʲbʲo.ʌ] ;) ), and its singular is _imufd_, pronounced
>> [ˈmbaɡ] (I know, not all bags are made of leather, but still... :P ).
>>
>> In Moten, I have less inside jokes. The most obvious one is the word for
>> "dog" (again?!): _badi_, after my dog Buddy :) . A less obvious one is the
>> verb _ipolti_: to open. The root _pol(t)_ is based on the French word for
>> "door": "porte" :) . The joke comes full circle because the participle of
>> the verb is often used to indicate a typical object that exemplifies the
>> verb, and in this case _poltuz_ is used to mean "door" :) . A last joke
>> concerns the words _sponda_: "small animal" and _kit_: "large animal". The
>> fact that the word for small animals is longer than the word for large
>> animals (which contains the sound [i] that some people claim is always
>> related to tininess) is anything but random :P .
>>
>> As you see, my inside jokes are more often grammatical than lexical :P .
>>
>> Btw, here's a list of inside jokes in Delang:
>>>
>>> абі abi /abi/ verb shirk (from Abi)
>>> анаƒиҫ anafuzj /a:nafʉʃ/ noun diarrhea litt. ass torrent
>>> бјаньа bjanqa /bjanqa/ noun curmudgeon (from Bianca)
>>> блаδваь bladvaq /bla:dvaq/ noun pickax  (Yeah, I read Harry Potter)
>>> δіь diq /diq/ 1 noun law 2 noun rule
>>> ƒєь feuq /føq/ noun inclusion
>>> гłо gro /gɹu:/ 1 time indicator future tense 2 prefix future tense 3
>>> time indicator would (from Gro)
>>> інтераљ interall /intexaɭ/ noun cosmos litt. between everything
>>> љејzа llejsja /ɭejʂa/ 1 noun atheist 2 noun god hater (from Leisha)
>>>
>>
>> I have to take exception to this one: as an atheist, I am certainly not a
>> god hater. After all, you cannot hate what doesn't exist :) . The ground
>> staff, on the other hand... ;)
>>
>>
>>> малін malin /ma:lin/ 1 noun slide (from Malin)
>>> ьҩь qauq /qɔq/ noun ladybug
>>>
>>> I'm sure there are a few more...
>>>
>>> Koppa Dasao
>>> ___
>>> Гłо ƕамас інтер Мор δегај ƕамас ін моłі не ƒłемітеłі, мітеłі.
>>> Gro hamaz intex Mox degaj hamaz in mori ne fremiteri, miteri.
>>> May they in Death receive the peace they didn't get in dying.
>>> ___
>>> Sent with GMail
>>> www.gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
>>
>> http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
>>
>



-- 

Qouen loucariam! ica vindere al iscôm pneumam niscam enccanemôn
en al icaica anouram an;
orimdê eiodipositare al enccanemôn qouem, ica forato itan, meita qouemver etra;
etti ica sa laptato al iscôm pneumam. Men dê semoudat al narsas qouis,
ica accoreire al iscôm pneumam;
etti ica perfere pro al ican per empodoc pro al icaica anouram per.

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October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 5
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
September 2007, Week 2
September 2007, Week 1
August 2007, Week 5
August 2007, Week 4
August 2007, Week 3
August 2007, Week 2
August 2007, Week 1
July 2007, Week 5
July 2007, Week 4
July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
July 2007, Week 1
June 2007, Week 5
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
May 2007, Week 4
May 2007, Week 3
May 2007, Week 2
May 2007, Week 1
April 2007, Week 5
April 2007, Week 4
April 2007, Week 3
April 2007, Week 2
April 2007, Week 1
March 2007, Week 5
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 2
March 2007, Week 1
February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
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May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
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July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
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May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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