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CONLANG  September 2011, Week 4

CONLANG September 2011, Week 4

Subject:

Re: OT Platonism

From:

Patrick Dunn <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:44:42 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (102 lines)

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 1:50 AM, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On 26/09/2011 21:20, Patrick Dunn wrote:
> [snip]
>
>>
>> Platonism does not end with Plato.
>>
>
> It depends what one means by "Platonism," I guess.  I was
> using the term in the strict and narrow sense of "the

philosophy taught by Plato."
>

Ah.  I wasn't.  Hence the confusion.


>
>  It's a complex philosophy with a large and complex
>> lineage of proponents.  To refute a statement about the
>> Forms by saying that Plato didn't argue that is like
>> objecting to the periodic table because Empedocles didn't
>> describe it.
>>
>
> In the so-called "Middle Platonism" of the last century BCE,
> Platonic ideas became fused with Peripatetic and Stoics
> ideas.  It is very debatable how far the Neo-Platonists of
> the 3rd cent AD reflect Plato's actual teaching.
>

Yup, that's the generally accepted view.  I'm suspicious of it because it
seems to simplify the history of ideas a lot.  After all, both the Stoics
and the Peripatetics regarded Socrates as a forerunner of sorts.  Some
Stoics (M. Aurelius, especially) are very careful to avoid making firm
metaphysical claims (He often says such things as "whether there are atoms
or gods . . . "), but one can certainly see echoes of Platonic axiology in
their ethics.  And in retrospect we certainly would argue that the
Neo-Platonists of the III C are doing something different from Plato, but
they didn't call themselves Neo-platonists: they called themselves
Platonists.


>
> A Christian "Platonism" arose in the Middle Ages and there
> are - and you almost certainly are more familiar with this
> than I am - various modern "platonisms" in which "Platonism
> is the view that there exist such things as abstract objects
> — where an abstract object is an object that does not exist
> in space or time and which is therefore entirely
> non-physical and non-mental."
>
> See:
> http://plato.stanford.edu/**entries/platonism/<http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/platonism/>
>
> But that article goes on to say: "Platonism in this sense is
> a contemporary view. It is obviously related to the views of
> Plato in important ways, but it is not entirely clear that
> Plato endorsed this view, as it is defined here. In order to
> remain neutral on this question, the term ‘platonism’ is
> spelled with a lower-case ‘p’."
>
> I was referring to _Platonism_, i.e. what Plato taught; you
> were referring to _platonism_      ;)
>

Exactly.


>
> As far as this can be said to be on topic, it demonstrates
> the need to define terms and avoid misunderstanding    :)
>

As far as.  :)



>
>> I'd love to engage you in dialog about this, but yes,
>> it's off topic.  I suppose it'll have to wait until I
>> make it to a meet up somewhere.
>>
>
> I think you are far better informed than I on post-Platonic
> platonism  ;)
>

Maybe.  I'm no professional philosopher, by any means.  But I'd love to talk
about Platonic Realism with an intelligent person who is a materialist.
 It'd be a good way to hone and check my ideas.  Alas, I'm surrounded either
by people too polite to dialog with me or who agree with me.




-- 
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
pre-order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>.

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