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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  October 2011, Week 3

CONLANG October 2011, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Help creating subordinate clauses with neither pronouns nor conjunctions

From:

Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:34:29 -0300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (176 lines)

Sorry, I forgot a word that would make things clearer.

It should be:
Compositional polysynthetic languages usually have more than one
*FREE*morpheme per word. My conlang, on the other hand, will have only
one.

What I mean is that in my conlang one cannot have a word with more than one
free morpheme (a morpheme that can stand alone).

A example of a word in Chukchi, a compositional polysynthetic language:
Təmeyŋəlevtpəγtərkən.
*t-ə-meyŋ-ə-levt-pəγt-ə-rkən
*1.SG <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_number#Types_of_number>.SUBJ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject_%28grammar%29>
-great-head-hurt-PRES <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Present_tense>.1
'I have a fierce headache.'

As can be seen there are 3 free morphemes (great, head and hurt), but there
are 5 morphemes (the 3 free ones, 1.sg.subj and pres.1) plus 3 epenthetic
ə's.

Free morphemes are also called lexical morphemes.


I want to have only one lexical morpheme per word. The only exceptions would
be non-root words that would be created as Root1+Case+Root2.

My language is a VO language, thus it prefers prefixes to suffixes, and the
case is represented as a prefix. One example of non-root word would be the
word for "language" which would be represented as "words through the mouth"
and would be transcribed as Word+"Vialis case"+Mouth.


My idea is:
Is there a non-noun lexical morpheme?
If yes, then it will be the only lexical morpheme.
Otherwise, there can be at most two noun lexical morphemes, separated by a
case morpheme, ehich represents the relation between the two morphemes.

I hope this can help end this misunderstanding.

Hugo Cesar

On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:53 AM, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On 15/10/2011 04:26, Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro wrote:
>
>> Hej conlangers,
>>
>>
> Sorry, I'm genuinely and completely confused on several points.
>
> 1. SYNTHETIC LANGUAGE - WORDS OF ONE MORPHEME
>
>  I am creating a very synthetic language.
>>
>
> [snip]
>
>
>> Compositional polysynthetic languages usually have more
>> than one morpheme per word. My conlang, on the other
>> hand, will have only one.
>>
>
> I don't understand.
>
> *synthetic language* _n_. A language characterized by a high
> frequency of *synthetic* structures, whether *inflecting* or
> *agglutinating*.
> [Larry Trask, 1993, A Dictionary of Grammatical Terms in
> Linguistics, p. 273]
>
> ... in *synthetic languages*, words typically contain more
> than one MORPHEME (as opposed to ANALYTIC languages, where
> words are typically monomorphemic).
> [David Crystal, 1980, A dictionary of Linguistics and
> Phonetics, p. 378]
>
> The index of *synthesis* (Comrie 1989) has to do with how
> many morphemes tend to occur per word. This index defines a
> continuum from *isolating* languages at one extreme to
> highly *polysynthetic* languages at the other.  A strictly
> isolating language is one in which every word consists of
> only one morpheme. ... A highly polysynthetic language is
> one in which words tend to consist of several morphemes.
> [Thomas Payne, 1997, Describing Morphosyntax, p. 27]
>
> There's poor blokes like Thom Payne and myself who have
> thinking all these years that if a language had one morpheme
> per word it was an isolating language (sigh).
>
>
>  What can make my conlang as synthetic as (or as almost
>> synthetic as) a compositional polysynthetic language is
>> that there will not be any closed class word in my
>> conlang.
>>
>
> How does that make it synthetic?  [Genuine question]
>
> 2. NO PRONOUNS OF ANY SORT
>
>  There will be no adposition, no conjunction, no pronoun
>> (of any kind) and so on. Because of this lack of closed
>> class words, it is very difficult to build subordinate
>> clauses.
>>
>> My first attempt to create noun subordinate clauses was
>> to transform the verb of subordinate clause into a noun,
>> so I would transform "I saw you hugging that girl" into
>> "I saw your hug upon that girl".
>>
>
> My first reaction was "Why hasn't he considered using a
> gerund or something like the verbnoun of Insular Celtic?"
> Then I thought "Hey, aren't 'I' and 'you' pronouns, and
> isn't 'yours' a possessive form of 'you'?"
>
> (I'll let 'that' go by as a demonstrative adjective and
> assume there are no demonstrative pronouns; tho surely
> demonstrative adjectives are a _closed_ set!)
>
> Either your language doesn't have pronouns, or it does?
> Which is it?
>
> Then, I though, maybe this was a slip of the brain.  So
> let's try it with nouns instead:
> "Tom saw Pete hugging that girl" --> "Tom saw Pete's hug
> upon that girl"
>
> But then - help!!
>
> 3. MONOMORPHEMIC WORDS & NO ADPOSITIONS.
>
> 'upon' is an adposition, isn't it?
>
>
>  I create these sentences with a nominalized verb by using
>> the possessive case for the agent (the one that owns the
>> action) and the genitive case for the patient (simply an
>> object, a complement to that action).
>>
>
> Possessive case? Genitive case?  In a language in which all
> words are single morphemes?  How??
>
> [snip]
>
>  But this proved to be very awkward.
>>
>
> Well, yes - with no affixes, as words are monomorphemic, and
> no adpositions (to say nothing of no pronouns of any sort),
> it strikes me as extremely awkward.
>
> A pity, as I would have liked to have pursued the 'Insular
> Celtic verbnoun' idea a bit.
>
>
>  I hope someone can help me with this problem,
>>
>
> Sorry, no (and I'm genuinely sorry) - for me there are too
> many other more fundamental problems.
>
> --
> Ray
> ==============================**====
> http://www.carolandray.plus.**com <http://www.carolandray.plus.com>
> ==============================**====
> Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
> There's none too old to learn.
> [WELSH PROVERB]
>

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