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CONLANG  October 2011, Week 3

CONLANG October 2011, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Help creating subordinate clauses with neither pronouns nor conjunctions

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Sat, 15 Oct 2011 17:27:34 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (138 lines)

On 15/10/2011 16:34, Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro wrote:
> Sorry, I forgot a word that would make things clearer.
>
> It should be: Compositional polysynthetic languages
> usually have more than one *FREE*morpheme per word. My
> conlang, on the other hand, will have only one.
>
> What I mean is that in my conlang one cannot have a word
>  with more than one free morpheme (a morpheme that can
> stand alone).

OK - that make's it perfectly clear - thank you.

[snip]
>
> Free morphemes are also called lexical morphemes.
>

Yep - that makes sense.

> I want to have only one lexical morpheme per word. The
> only exceptions would be non-root words that would be
> created as Root1+Case+Root2.
>
> My language is a VO language, thus it prefers prefixes to
> suffixes, and the case is represented as a prefix.

Yep - it seems to me not to matter really whether you go in
for prefixes rather than suffixes.  Indeed, although we
conventionally put in white spaces between most (tho not
always all) morphemes in the pre-verbal pronoun strings in
romance languages, phonological they all form a single word
with the verb and could be written as prefixes    :)

>
> My idea is: Is there a non-noun lexical morpheme? If yes,
> then it will be the only lexical morpheme. Otherwise,
> there can be at most two noun lexical morphemes,
> separated by a case morpheme, ehich represents the
> relation between the two morphemes.
>
> I hope this can help end this misunderstanding.

It does, it's the way things were going in Piashi before I
dropped it.
=====================================================

On 15/10/2011 16:50, Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:53 AM, R A Brown wrote:
>>
>> 2. NO PRONOUNS OF ANY SORT
[snip]
>>
>> My first reaction was "Why hasn't he considered using
>> a gerund or something like the verbnoun of Insular
>> Celtic?" Then I thought "Hey, aren't 'I' and 'you'
>> pronouns, and isn't 'yours' a possessive form of
>> 'you'?"
>>
>> (I'll let 'that' go by as a demonstrative adjective
>> and assume there are no demonstrative pronouns; tho
>> surely demonstrative adjectives are a _closed_ set!)
>>
>> Either your language doesn't have pronouns, or it
>> does? Which is it?
[snip]

> "I saw your hug upon that girl" was only a readable
> approximate translation. It would be
> "See.1sg-subj.3sg-obj hug.2sg-poss girl.prox-2.gen"

Right - now I understand: one free morpheme + one more bound
morphemes. Personal pronouns are bound morphemes (just as,
in fact, conjunctive pronouns of the Romance languages are).
  I think, however, it is misleading to say there will be no
closed set of pronouns; the set of pronominal prefixes is a
closed set.

But I understand now.

[snip]
>
>> 3. MONOMORPHEMIC WORDS&  NO ADPOSITIONS.
>>
>> 'upon' is an adposition, isn't it?
[snip]
>
> I answered this problem in the last e-mail. I forgot to
> tell that the words would be single FREE morphemes, or
> single LEXICAL morphemes.
>
>
>> A pity, as I would have liked to have pursued the
>> 'Insular Celtic verbnoun' idea a bit.

You did.

> I hope you can help now that I made my ideas clearer.

Thanks for prompt reply and making things clear.  As I say,
it is very much in line with ideas I have been playing
around with over the past few years.

>
> Thanks for trying to help me. I really want to see your
> "'Insular Celtic verbnoun' idea".

It's used in all sorts of interesting idioms and I think
Michael Everson can tell you more about it than I -
certainly across the Insular Celtic languages.

In fact if one changed your sentence above slightly so that
'hug' becomes more 'verby', i.e. is a verbal noun (gerund)
"hugging", we could have:

See.1sg-subj.3sg-obj hug.gerund=2sg-poss girl.prox-2.gen

"I see your hugging of-that girl"

In both your earlier version and my version above, 'hug' or
'hugging' is the direct object of 'see'; but it appears not
to be marked as such (except that the has a 3rd-obj affix.

In a sentence which has nouns, foe example, "the dog sees
the cat", are either the subject or object themselves?

I assume that possessive and genitive are different affixes
(bound morphemes).

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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