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CONLANG  November 2011, Week 3

CONLANG November 2011, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Gleb, my phonology generator, v0.3

From:

Arnt Richard Johansen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:41:52 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (61 lines)

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:03:48AM -0500, Alex Fink wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:44:35 +0100, Arnt Richard Johansen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> >On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 03:52:42PM -0500, Alex Fink wrote:

> >>   http://000024.org/cgi-bin/gleb.cgi
> >
> >Some of these phonological rules are really funky, e. g.:
> >
> >   Obstruents other than [f f_w K K_w s s_w x x_w], i.e. [mb t ts)_h ...],
> become ejective [p_> t_> ts)_> ...] after a non-nasal glottal stop. Voiced
> stops become ejective; obstruents other than stops or [G] become
> non-ejective; prenasalised stops become non-prenasalised; aspirated stops
> become unaspirated; alveolar obstruents other than stops become resonants;
> labiodental fricatives become bilabial nasals; [G] are deleted; [G_w] become
> [w].
> >
> 
> >some look totally unmotivated and unnatural (like the example above).
> 
> What's going on in these monstrous cases is that it generates a
> straightforward assimilation, in this case glottalisation after [?]; but
> then, thanks to other rules, certain sounds change further; and it strives
> to describe this all at once.  

Oh, that explains it. I was expecting one rule per line, and all rules being applied in chronological order. Like a sound change applier does. But I can see the rationale for having it like this, too.

> So, in the above, it looks like all stop series are going to ejectives in a
> reasonable way; voiceless fricatives are impervious; it's just voiced
> fricatives that went weird.  And my surmise would be that it decided that
> glottalised voiced fricatives should turn into resonants, and then the
> resonants all went their own ways, *[v\] < [v] becoming [m] and *[M\] < [G]
> being deleted.  
> 
> So several things happening at once, yeah, but is it unnatural or just bad
> at being clear?  

It is quite likely that I'm just not very familiar with the diversity of possible/likely phonological rules. But now that you've explained it I think it's mainly a problem of description: usually, Gleb refers to classes of phonemes by features, but sometimes it enumerates all the members (the voiceless fricatives above, for example).

> >Also, would it be possible to generate random phonological rules for a
> pre-made phonemic inventory?
> 
> That should be very easy once your phonemic inventory was specified in its
> format.  
> So the question is really about going from a list of phonemes, or whatever,
> to an inventory in its format.

If I had some documentation (or maybe just a couple of examples of phonemic inventories in this format), I might even be able to do it manually. :-)

> Writing code for that would probably be not
> so bad to do thoughtlessly, subtler to do in a way that tries to preserve
> apparent structure (like if you give it /p p_j t t_j k ts\/, having it
> realise that it's probably just phonemic [+-palatalised] on the last pair as
> well).  

I think a system like that might help conlangers who already have a phonemic inventory that they like, to come up with some fresh ideas on how to map phonemes to allophones. Myself, I'm playing with a phonology with two laterals: one coronal, and one dorsal. I'm pretty sure that the front lateral should be just [l], but the best idea I have for the back one is free variation between [ʎ] and [ʟ]. And I don't like free variation. :-P

-- 
Arnt Richard Johansen                                http://arj.nvg.org/
Keyboard: The Ultimate Input Device

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