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CONLANG  November 2011, Week 5

CONLANG November 2011, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Algol (or C++) is to Assembly Language as Natlang is to ?

From:

Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:52:26 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (116 lines)

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Daniel Burgener
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Question.  When you start talking about "compiling" language, my first
> thought is that you're going to automate this process with a computer.
>  Which is, of course, a very difficult problem...

The thought had occurred to me to try machine translation, but as I've
already invested many years, off and on, to the problem of parsing
English sentences for chatbot programs (with very little to show for
it; see "Artificial Intelligence" on my web page: http://fiziwig.com/
) I decided that for what I had in mind human translation would be
best.

>
> To carry the metaphor along, I would point out that it's generally
> unsimilar for programming languages.  In fact, assembly for two programs
> that do the same thing in the same language would be vastly different. ...

Setting aside the obvious difference in machine code vs. interpreted
P-code, a lot of those differences might simply be due to choices made
as to register allocation, parameter passing methods, manner in which
tasks are factored into smaller functions and subroutines, etc.

Since the target "assembly language" (and that was probably a poor
choice of name) is geared more toward the semantic content of the
original it would seem that no matter how the concept of "Person A
giving something to person B" is expressed in any given natlang, the
"primitive" operations "gives" and "accepts' are still going to have
to be present in the "compiled" version since they represent the core
meaning of the utterance, and there is no alternative operation code
for affecting this transfer.

The two sentences "John gave the book to Mary." and "Mary accepted the
book from John." might compile to identical semantic sequences with
the possible exception that one additional statement might be present
to indicate the focus of attention is on John's action in one case and
on Mary's action in the other.

>
> The main reason for that is that different programming languages express
> things in different ways, which is part of the point.  And it goes beyond
> the superficial stuff where C++ would say "c = a +b;" and scheme would say
> "(c <- (+a b))", which is roughly the equivalent of SVO vs SOV. ...

Granted, but these are surface syntax differences in the source
languages. In the end, the processor still needs to put "a" into a
register, add "b" to it and then place the result into "c". If the
machine were a stack machine then scheme would already be closer to
machine code and C++ would have to be translated to RPN. If the
machine were a register machine then it would be the scheme source
code that would need more translation.

>
> Now, I imagine that a human could do a better job at matching if that were
> the goal.  If a speaker of Russian, Chinese and English were given
> sentences in two of the languages expressing some idea, I presume he could
> write a sentence in the third expressing that same idea and call it a
> "translation" of both, but it might be different that the sentence he'd
> write given each original sentence individually.

Of course. But in the process of "compiling" the grammar and syntax of
the original language is lost. It has to be, because the more
primitive code is meant to be independent of any natlang grammar or
syntax. The purpose is not to encode the grammar and syntax of the
source, but to obliterate it. Pentium machine code does not preserve
the syntax of C++, FORTRAN, or (thank goodness) COBOL. It obliterates
it in order to tease out the deeper meaning encoded in that syntax.

>> In other words, could such a conlang (that I called here "assembly
>> language") really be the "universal machine language" of all human
>> communication?
>
> As Lee said, yeah, it probably could incorporate all features, but each
> language would only use a subset.

Syntactical and grammatical features do not need to be incorporated.
They need to be abstracted out of existence in the final compiled
result.

Imagine this thought experiment. We put two native Chinese speakers
together in a room. We give person A a book and tell him, in Chinese,
give this book to the other person. Then we watch what happens.

Next, we put two native Icelandic speakers together in a room. We give
person A a book and tell him, in Icelandic, give this book to the
other person. Then we watch what happens.

My contention is that essentially the same thing will happen in both
rooms, regardless of the form in which the instructions were given.
Active or passive? Isolating? Imperative command or oblique
suggestion? Polite register? Verb tense? Presence or absence of
articles? None of that matters. It's all irrelevant to the final
action that takes place in the room, and it's that final action that
needs to be encoded in the "assembly language".
...

>
> Of course, when it comes to assembly, decompiling is an extremely hard
> problem...  And decompiled assembly wouldn't look like anything a "native
> speaker" of that programming language would write. ...

However, if the "decompiling" were based on using the semantic
information from the "assembler" code to stuff appropriate words into
existing sentence templates collected from human-produced examples of
the target language then the decompiled version would look exactly
like what a human native speaker would say. In fact, building good
sentences in any natlang, given a sufficient library of canned
sentence templates, is trivially simple.

This is not to say that the computer program could or would duplicate
every possible English (for example) utterance, only that every
utterance it did generate would sound exactly like an utterance
generated by a human native speaker.

--gary

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