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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  November 2011, Week 5

CONLANG November 2011, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Do artlangers dislike auxlangers?

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:49:14 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (121 lines)

On 30/11/2011 10:32, Michael Everson wrote:
> On 29 Nov 2011, at 21:37, Gary Shannon wrote:
>
>> By "taken seriously" I was really referring to someone
>> who honestly believes their new or favorite auxlang
>> has a chance to become the lingua franca of planet
>> Earth.
>
> I don't think I know any auxlangers who believes this.

You are very lucky indeed.  I've come across more than
enough of such - and not only their favorite auxlang, but
their own version of their favorite auxlang!!

>> Auxlangs are fun when treated as conlangs, with a lot
>> of interesting issues to discuss and explore.
>
> Indeed.
>
> So far I know of two translations of Alice into
> Esperanto, one into Volapük, one into Neo, and fragments
> into Interlingua. All Auxlangs, at least originally. I
> know of only one conlang translation,

But Esperanto, Volapük, Neo and Interlingua are conlangs,
aren't they?   ;)

As Gary writes: "Auxlangs are fun when treated as conlangs."
========================================================

On 30/11/2011 14:40, Michael Everson wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2011, at 07:58, R A Brown wrote:
[snip]
>> One has only to look back in the archives at the
>> emails to Conlang prior to the Great Sundering of
>> January 1996 to see why the lists were separated.
>
> I don't know where the archives are, but... does an
> argument 15 years ago mean that people can't get along
> today? I am not suggesting re-amalgamating the two
> groups, but it sounds like you're holding a grudge.

Hardly - I knew nothing about either list in 1996!

But I assure you that the emails make grim reading - also
you would need to set aside quite a bit of time to read
through them all.  I don't recall how many there were in
that weekend before the Great Sundering, but it was quite
horrendous.

I joined both lists year or so later, quite unaware of the
past history and quite enthusiastic for both auxlangs &
non-auxlang conlangs.  It was my experience on the Auxlang
list itself, with its bigotry & fanaticism that turned me
off.  The final straw, so to speak, was when IIRC four
different Novial revival camps were trading insults &
flames.  I had run out of asbestos suits and quit.

I am told that things are more civilized over in Auxlandia
now, but personally I have no desire to return.  Nothing
whatsoever to do with grudges - I am a little bit more grown
up than that.  Life is far too short to bother with grudges.

[snip]
>
>> Whether any Volapükists still hanker after such a
>> dream, I do not know.  Certainly I cannot recall any
>> making such claims during the time I was on Auxlang.
>
> None of the Volapükists I know have ever suggested it.

I've not come across any either.

>> If one wants to understand the attitude of people like
>> Gary and myself towards auxlangs, read:
>> http://www.rickharrison.com/language/farewell.html
>
> Well, there's a lot of criticism in the "eristic"
> section of "some [particular] Auxlangers" in this. Maybe
> it was icky in 1996.

Oooh - I can assure you it was true later than that.

> Still, today is today. For my part, I enjoy auxlangs as
> conlangs, rather than in hope of their implementation.

As I say, I hear it is more civilized now.  But I am sure
that what Gary was meaning with "taken seriously" was 'taken
seriously as international auxiliary languages.'

Enjoying them as a _conlang_ is a whole different matter.  I
happen to share very much your views on Volapük, as it happens.

>> My own view is given briefly on:
>> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/IAL.html
>
> You said there: "My time on the latter led me more and
> more to the conclusion that any successful IAL was more
> likely to be a development of a natural language." I
> think Interlingua fits that bill rather more than most
> of them.

The most polite & civilized auxlanger I think I came across
was in fact a proponent of Interlingua.  But then he didn't
push it as global auxlang, but commended it as a useful
auxlang for those with knowledge of western European languages.

At present the most successful global auxlang is the
international English Koine which has been developing over
the last half century and is still developing.  Who knows?
It might even lead to spelling reform    :)

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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