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CONLANG  January 2012, Week 4

CONLANG January 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: A Drama of Conlangs

From:

Sam Stutter <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 23 Jan 2012 00:27:55 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (174 lines)

Professional one-act theatre critic here, out of the way people!

On 22 Jan 2012, at 22:50, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> --- On Sun, 1/22/12, James Hyett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> So, I've been thinking recently of writing a short, one-act play possibly
>> to use in next year's season of a local amateur drama
>> festival, about conlangs. The basic story I had in mind was
>> set in some sort of wartime type thing (nothing too serious,
>> not much tragedy) between different conlangs, fighting
>> against those that speak differently to themselves.
> 
> So, the characters are the languages themselves, or speakers of the 
> languages?

K.I.S.S. You've got an hour and 8 characters tops for a full play. One act I'd say 30 minutes and 5 characters. If it's sectarian conflict you're looking at, that's 3 conlangs tops.

> 
>> A group of people get kicked out of their respective groups, decide
>> to form their own language to fight in the war, but for
>> freedom, and ultimately end up putting more fuel in the flame.
> 
> Well, there is an element of conflict here, which is a start. But is there
> something more than a bunch of people getting kicked out of the group and
> feelings of anger towards those who kicked them out? Frankly, I'm not sure
> how this, as stated, is much to go on for a plot. This sounds rather like
> a good old fashioned Auxlang flamefest!
> 
> Setting it in wartime I think is a plus. Plenty of opportunity for drama,
> conflict, seat-of-the-pants escapes, etc. Also opportunity for enemies to
> interact and reaffirm their mutual humanity in the midst of mindless
> inhumanity. (Assuming that the characters are people and not languages!)

One-act play. That's one room and you're gonna manage a single imitation firearm and a strobe light. I know writing workshops always go on about "writing what you want and then dealing with practical considerations later" but, with indie theatre particularly you should always bear in mind that 1 director, 1 producer, 1 sound engineer, 1 lampie and 1 costume/makeup designer have got to pull it off.

> 
> I guess my main question then would be: okay, what happens next? Conlangs
> and group tension are two good elements, but what about the over-arching
> plot? The main conflict of the work? The big picture!

*A* war. Any war. Tie the languages to whole cultural identities. The conflict between Indian Muslims and Indian Hindus resulting in the origins of Sikhism works as precedent. 

Why the hell should we care about one sect in particular? 

> 
>> I'd quite appreciate some feedback on this idea, and
>> suggestions. For example, should I use artlangs exclusively,
>> or engelangs, or auxlangs? All three, with each being a sort
>> of alliance against the other two? 
> 
> It may not matter much. A conlanger in the audience might take notice of
> such details, but a theater goer is going to be more interested in how
> the conlangs tie into the human drama, and how the conflicts of this
> drama are resolved.

100% with you on this

> 
> Um. You say it's set in wartime. That puts me in mind of perhaps the late
> 19th century or early 20th -- perhaps WWI? Prime time for auxlangs and
> auxlang fever in Europe. 

Bleugh. WW1 *again*. SO hard to do well and overdone. It should be a whole new world. Full and complete. Does it have to be conlangs as conlangs? What about conlangs masquerading as natlangs?

> 
> Another angle: you might be able to work in a link between artlanger
> Tolkien (who was in the service at that time as I recall) and a fictional
> auxlanger. That could give you a potential conflict between persons. I do
> also vaguely recall reading from Tolkien that he encountered a conlanger
> while in the service, but was unable to get him to open up about his
> secret vice. Perhaps in the play, the other conlanger could eventually
> open up (internal conflict) and later fall out with the other 

Force them to interact: trap them together. They don't need to be conlangers. But they need to be people, not just opinions.

> 
>> I'm pretty sure I can't
>> have everyone speaking different, unheard of languages all
>> the time, 
> 
> I can see how that would be a turn-off. It's certainly a novel idea, and
> there may well be a market of theater goers who will put up with it, but
> I can't imagine that very many people who are interested in an amateur
> drama festival will be quite thìs prepared to listen through large blocks
> of non-English dialogue!



> Now, I think it can be done -- but you'd need
> some really good actors who can communicate to the audience without words.
> So they get the emotional gist even without understanding the words
> themselves.

Ha! Don't depend upon it. 1 actor slips up and you and the director are toast.

Option 1) Have English as a method by which different sects communicate with each other, and only speak in conlang among themselves.
Option 2) Throw out the whole pre-modernist concept of "the well-made-play" and work upon the abstract in every way possible. Hire an artist, musicians, choreographer, film maker and make something unbelievable.

> 
> I'm put in mind of Passion -- done entirely in ancient languages (though
> as I recall with subtitles).

*Surtitles* might be a way to go.

> The thing about that movie: everyone knew
> the plot going in. You've got the uphill battle of presenting a story that
> no one actually knows going in. So using lots of conlang dialog could be
> a problem, or it could be quite the coup if pulled off.
> 
>> so perhaps in scenes with other groups, one would
>> speak English, and the other their own language, and in
>> scenes with just one group, they'd speak English.

Thumbs up.

> 
> You might consider some way of simultaneously translating (perhaps by 
> another character) or describing immediately before or after the conlang 
> speech) as a way of informing the audience of what's going on.

No. Too distracting. 

> I can just 
> see a whole lot of audience memebers beginning to shuffle their feet, 
> check watches, open cell phones...

Walking out halfway through...

> That would be a shame. The problem 
> could be diminished if a way of letting people know what's being said is 
> developed.

I've developed a taste for Beckett. In "Two Dialogues" something is said along the lines of: "art is only useful when it says absolutely nothing, because that is the only truth". Maybe make no sense whatsoever... Babel.

> 
>> Also, which languages should I use? I'd been thinking about having-- in
>> addition to the overarching Great War-- smaller battles
>> amongst similar languages (for example, Quenyans fighting
>> 'Black Speakers', or Esperanto v. Ido.) If I do that, I can
>> see a few groups already: Lord of the Rings (Quenya, Black
>> Speech, Khuzdul, Adunaic, etc.); Star Trek (or maybe just
>> sci-fi, then including Doctor Who, Dune, Star Wars, etc.);
>> 'Future English' (for example, Blade Runner's "City Speak",
>> A Clockwork Orange's "Nadsat", Nineteen Eighty-Four's
>> "Newspeak"); Minimalistic/ Philosophical Languages (Toki
>> Pona, Earth Minimal, even maybe Laadan); and Jokelangs (Oou,
>> Inflationary Language, DiLingo.)So, what do you think?-James

Your own languages. It's your show. And remember you've only got time for three of them.

> 
> Are you positing that populations fighting in this war speak these
> languages? Or that a(n unrealistically high) number of the soldiers on
> all sides of the conflict are sci-fi language geeks?
> 
> In all honesty, I am left a little confused as to what the play is really
> supposed to be about...
> 
> As for some practical considerations, that the producer(s) of the drama
> festival might be asking you: why would anyone care? That is, how are you
> going to draw a mixed / largely non-conlang-savvy audience in to your
> story? And an important one: what ìs the story? I read some interesting
> devices in use here, but I didn't really see a plot or story outline.
> 
Concur.


> Hope to hear more about this project as time goes on!
> 
> Padraic

Anyway, I'm off to bed. I'll knock together 400 words of biting and incisive prose tomorrow and more conclusively pan the whole exercise, your intelligence and the manner of your own conception :D

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January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
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August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
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May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
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March 2004, Week 3
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March 2004, Week 1
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February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
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November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
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December 2000, Week 5
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October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
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September 2000, Week 1
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July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
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June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
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May 2000, Week 1
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April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
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October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
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August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
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November 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
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September 1998, Week 5
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