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CONLANG  January 2012, Week 4

CONLANG January 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Pronouns (Was: Curious verb construction)

From:

"J. Snow" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:27:03 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (126 lines)

In Sironu I use the accusative case as the predicate noun. 

Jonu u geto ben. "John is a man.", with -Jonu- being in the nominative and -
geto- being accusative. Is that grammatically acceptable?

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:33:14 -0800, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> 
wrote:

>--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Charles W Brickner <[log in to unmask]> 
wrote:
>
>> Does the verb "to be" take a direct object?
>
>No. It shows equation between what's on either side. The sentence "Charlie 
is a conlanger" demonstrates the fundamental identity of "Charlie" with
>the actions of a conlanger. Be establishes facts and shows the relationship
>between a fact and the thing about which the fact is said.
>
>When "be" is used in a question, the fact is unknown, but the same identity
>and relationships are expressed. In this case, the asker is simply querying
>about this relationship. So, "who is Charlie" simply asks to connect a
>known piece of information with an unknown. "Charlie" is a known name, but
>"who" expresses an unknown person about whom the name is applied.
>
>So far these sentences all express "third person" -- two people are talking
>about a third person who is (in all likelihood) not present at the time.
>Now we change the mode of address so that two people talking are now 
asking
>questions about each other: "who are you?" The equation is still the same,
>but now the person has changed. The grammatical person is now "second"
>and so the unknown quantity "who" shifts with it, because of its identity
>with the subject. "Who is he" = third person; "Who are you" = second
>person; "Who am I" = first person.
>
>If you use a different verb -- one that can take a direct object -- *then*
>you find "whom". "Whom do you want?" "To whom did you give the book?" "I
>just don't know whom to trust" In all these cases, the verbs are taking
>an interrogative pronoun as their direct or indirect objects. The objects
>are thus marked (in elevated speech) with -m.
>
>This is what you get when your language doesn't have distinct 1st, 2nd and
>3rd person interrogative / relative / demonstrative pronouns. In English,
>and I suspect many other languages as well, we just have the one form.
>
>Now go forth and conlang!
>
>Padraic
>
>> Charlie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> On Behalf Of George Corley
>> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 12:41 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Pronouns (Was: Curious verb construction)
>>
>> Oh, wait, nevermind.  In "Who are you?" -- "Who" is the
>> direct object -- "you" the subject.  Normally "who"
>> takes third person singular.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:39 AM, George Corley <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > "Are" can be third person -- it just so happens to be
>> first and second
>> > as well.  We still say "this is" and "that is".
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:32 AM, Luke Fleischman
>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>> >
>> >> Although, if 'who' were being treated as a third
>> person pronoun,
>> >> wouldn't it be "Who is you?" and "Who is I?", which
>> it obviously
>> >> isn't?
>> >>
>> >> --Loki
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 20:39, MorphemeAddict
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> >> > No, those examples are no different from "he
>> is you" or "Are you my
>> >> mother?"
>> >> >
>> >> > The person of the predicate noun has nothing
>> to do with the person
>> >> > of
>> >> the
>> >> > subject or verb.
>> >> >
>> >> > stevo (JMO=just my opinion)
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Charlie
>> Brickner <
>> >> > [log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:30:17 -0500,
>> MorphemeAddict
>> >> >> <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >...interrogative pronouns (who/what)
>> are third person.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Wouldn't questions like "Who are you?" and
>> "Who am I?" show that "who"
>> >> can
>> >> >> also be first and second person?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Charlie
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ȝyxw59
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>

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