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CONLANG  January 2012, Week 4

CONLANG January 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: The Grammar of Asirka

From:

Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 22 Jan 2012 09:50:37 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (63 lines)

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:02:26 +0000, Michael Everson <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>On 22 Jan 2012, at 07:11, Scott Hlad wrote:
>
>> http://www3.telus.net/scotto/rumansa/TheGrammarOfAsirka.pdf
>
>Why the terms "hard" and "soft" for the consonants? [4] and [l] are very
similar? I see that you have spelling rules regarding these, but how is [x]
hard and other voiceless fricatives like [S] an [T] soft? I'm not sure the
terminology is convincing. In Slavic "soft" is often used for "palatalized";
in Irish "slender" is used.

I was going to ask about this too.  Your hard/sort/ambiguous split comes
close to having the feel of a split into _historically_
unpalatalised/palatalised/palatalisation-neutral, or a variant thereof. 
Affricates and [S Z] etc. are the sort of stuff palatalisation likes to
produce; [4] resisting palatalisation is common, and [l] being exclusively
soft could work too (maybe there was a Polish-type historical [l l_j] > [5
l(_j)] > [w l] > [0 l] or [v l]).  And maybe palatalisation never took hold
on labials, or maybe they are a separate class due to another sound change.
 But the fricatives all being soft is a little harder to motivate: I'd
expect at least one more set to be hard, so that maybe e.g. [T s] [x S] are
hard/soft pairs, paralleling [t ts)] [k tS)]  (and then [D z] [d z] [g Z] I
guess, with *voiced affricates having decayed to fricatives).  And the
nasals are entirely out of line!  [m n] palatal but [J] not?!  I'd expect
[n] hard [J] soft [m] neutral.

We should also look at the alternations they condition.  If the grounds for
the division is historically unpal'd/pal'd/labial, then one would expect the
corresponding vowels to have been historically front/nonfront/neutral, or
maybe front/nonfront/(back) rounded.  The latter works well for your
perfective alternation if /y/ were once [1] or so.  It's stranger for the
irrealis alternation; one expects /o/ and /a/ to be swapped.  So maybe there
was also a historical sound change exchanging [o] and [a].  Or maybe the
soft alternant being <ei> and not <e> is a sign that the original sound was
a diphthong and that explains the weird developments...?

For the vowels for which you have listed tense and lax values, what is it
that determines which value is used in a given word?  And why is it that
only /e i o/ have this alternation?  I'd expect at least /2/ to as well. 
Perhaps also /y u/, but perhaps not if the reason /i/ does relates to the
fact that <ie> is always /I/ (but was that supposed to be /i/?  you wrote a
literal capital <I>).  

In the word _kriesheliezh_, there seems to be an onset cluster _kr-_ which
you have not permitted, and I also thought your syllabification rules would
place the /l/ like -she-liezh, not -shel-iezh.  

What else?  I'm amused by your enumeration of excreta (a gender system could
very well do that, yeah!).  
I like the forms you've chosen for the various inanimate/animate contrasts,
they're nicely half-patterned and redolent of shortenings of something
earlier more regular.  

You've got a lot of prepositions with very neat circumscribed senses; it is
normal for the way prepositions divide up senses to be messy (why is it "in
a car" but "on a bus"?  is it _na Ukraine_ or _v Ukraine_? ...).

And it looks like you've got a long way to go on syntax, yet.

Alex

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