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CONLANG  February 2012, Week 3

CONLANG February 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Outdoors

From:

MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:45:53 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (173 lines)

Toms,
That's a helpful article. Thanks for the link.

stevo

On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 8:01 AM, Toms Deimonds Barvidis
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> I've never really tried to find anything for Lithuanian. I suppose such
> info could be used for Latvian at least to some
> degree, since there are not much sound changes involved in the split of
> Latvian and Lithuanian.
>
>
> http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/50949/Baltic-languages/74884/Comparison-of-Lithuanian-and-Latvian-
> this page has got some basic description of the differences between
> Latvian and Lithuanian, the former generally
> considered more innovative, at least by those who are not of the
> Latvian-Sanskrit Superlanguage cult :D
>
> --
> Raungiga golvärdhänon.
> Toms Deimonds Barvidis
>
>
> Citējot MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>:
> > Is Lithuanian material any more available than Latvian? To what degree
> can
> > such Lithuanian material be used for Latvian?
> >
> > stevo
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 3:03 AM, Toms Deimonds Barvidis
> > <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> >
> >> Nav par ko :)
> >>
> >> It's pretty hard to find decent information on history of Latvian even
> >> here, in Latvia. Most of the web-based
> >> information is highly biased, emphasizing the similarities between
> Latvian
> >> and Sanskrit to sometimes even
> >> ridiculous degree while ignoring other IE languages altogether.
> >>
> >> I sometimes surprises me how many Germanic loanwords Latvian has, when I
> >> come to a realization that some
> >> basic vocabulary unit is actually a loan. I think it's a little bit sad,
> >> too, though I'm not in any way opposed to
> >> borrowing, especially if the borrowing language doesn't have an
> >> appropriate word. Anyway, the awesome amount of
> >> German loans (I'm for from competent in Germanic linguistics, but I
> >> believe the source language of most of the
> >> loans to be Middle Low German) in Latvian (as well as French loans in
> >> English) inspired me to do a loan-ful
> >> conlang, Beringian.
> >>
> >> Beringian has appeared in the list once or twice, I remember once
> >> mentioning it because I was pretty proud of how I
> >> made it sound and look like French, though the similarity has waned a
> >> little bit since.
> >>
> >> So, I don't know if it's been already discussed here on the list, but
> have
> >> those of you who have conworlds (I think it's
> >> necessary for this one :D ) ever put some work into making languages
> >> borrow from each other? What are the
> >> causes for borrowing? Higher prestige of the source language or simply
> the
> >> borrowing culture is more backwards
> >> and doesn't have the words for some concepts? How likely is it that the
> >> institutions governing language have new
> >> learned borrowings undergo some historical sound changes in order to
> make
> >> them feel more natural?
> >>
> >>
> >> Citējot "Nikolay Ivankov" <[log in to unmask]>:
> >>> Liels paldies.
> >>>
> >>> I really love how Latvian sounds, but being by no means native, I know
> >>> nothing about the history of your language. And I really find it very
> sad
> >>> that such a beautiful and archaic language is spoiled with loanwords.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Toms Deimonds Barvidis
> >>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This issue seams to be already solved before I, a native Latvian
> >> speaker,
> >>>> had seen the thread :D
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway, "ārā" is indeed a locative from an earlier "ārs", meaning "the
> >>>> outdoors", most definitely related to "āre", an
> >>>> open, cultivated land, thus probably also with "art" (to plough) and
> >>>> "arkls" (a plough), as well as Latin "arō" and
> >>>> English "ear" (not the body part, of course), I suppose.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nowadays it's usually perceived as an adverb, not a declined form of
> any
> >>>> noun, since "ārs" has fallen out of usage
> >>>> in this meaning; "ārs" is now used to mean an are, 100 square meters.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Laukā" is also a locative from "lauks", a field.
> >>>>
> >>>> The opposite concept "inside" is usually "iekšā"; seems like another
> >>>> locative. Some related words are "iekšas"
> >>>> (intestine) and "iekš", an archaic preposition meaning "in", usually
> >> used
> >>>> mocking the way Baltic Germans spoke
> >>>> Latvian and more increasingly with loaned words that can't be
> declined,
> >>>> though I find this rather ugly.
> >>>>
> >>>> Citējot "Nikolay Ivankov" <[log in to unmask]>:
> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:04 PM, MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Nikolay Ivankov <
> >> [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In Russian one uses "na ulitse" (on the street) or "na dvore" (in
> the
> >>>>>> yard)
> >>>>>>> for outdoors, sometimes also "za oknom" (beyond the window). In
> >> Latvian
> >>>>>> it
> >>>>>>> is either arā (outside) or laukā "in the field".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Arā" looks like a locative. What is the nominative and what does it
> >>>> mean?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For me too, but I'm no champion it Latvian. There is no "aris" or
> >> "arus"
> >>>>> in the dictionalry, and the only meaning of "ars" is 100m2. Thuogh
> >> there
> >>>>> are particles "ar"="with" and "arī"="too". I can fancy that *arus may
> >> be
> >>>>> cognate with "agros", since "lauks" should be of the same origin as
> >>>> Russian
> >>>>> "lug" - "meadow".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> stevo
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Charlie Brickner <
> >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> It's 60° here in the Blue Ridge Mountains today and, as I was
> >> visiting
> >>>>>>> our
> >>>>>>>> shut-
> >>>>>>>> ins, I was enjoying the winter outdoors.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The thought occurred to me that you can't say "outdoors" unless
> your
> >>>>>>>> culture
> >>>>>>>> has doors!  If your conculture is so primitive as not to have
> doors,
> >>>>>> how
> >>>>>>>> do you
> >>>>>>>> express the concept of "outdoors" in your conlang?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Charlie
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>

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December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
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November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
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October 2005, Week 1
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April 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 3
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December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 1
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October 2002, Week 5
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October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
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June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
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May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 3
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December 2001, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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October 2001, Week 3
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October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
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April 2001, Week 3
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April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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January 2000, Week 3
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January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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November 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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