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CONLANG  February 2012, Week 3

CONLANG February 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Outdoors

From:

MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 07:27:40 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (135 lines)

Is Lithuanian material any more available than Latvian? To what degree can
such Lithuanian material be used for Latvian?

stevo

On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 3:03 AM, Toms Deimonds Barvidis
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Nav par ko :)
>
> It's pretty hard to find decent information on history of Latvian even
> here, in Latvia. Most of the web-based
> information is highly biased, emphasizing the similarities between Latvian
> and Sanskrit to sometimes even
> ridiculous degree while ignoring other IE languages altogether.
>
> I sometimes surprises me how many Germanic loanwords Latvian has, when I
> come to a realization that some
> basic vocabulary unit is actually a loan. I think it's a little bit sad,
> too, though I'm not in any way opposed to
> borrowing, especially if the borrowing language doesn't have an
> appropriate word. Anyway, the awesome amount of
> German loans (I'm for from competent in Germanic linguistics, but I
> believe the source language of most of the
> loans to be Middle Low German) in Latvian (as well as French loans in
> English) inspired me to do a loan-ful
> conlang, Beringian.
>
> Beringian has appeared in the list once or twice, I remember once
> mentioning it because I was pretty proud of how I
> made it sound and look like French, though the similarity has waned a
> little bit since.
>
> So, I don't know if it's been already discussed here on the list, but have
> those of you who have conworlds (I think it's
> necessary for this one :D ) ever put some work into making languages
> borrow from each other? What are the
> causes for borrowing? Higher prestige of the source language or simply the
> borrowing culture is more backwards
> and doesn't have the words for some concepts? How likely is it that the
> institutions governing language have new
> learned borrowings undergo some historical sound changes in order to make
> them feel more natural?
>
>
> Citējot "Nikolay Ivankov" <[log in to unmask]>:
> > Liels paldies.
> >
> > I really love how Latvian sounds, but being by no means native, I know
> > nothing about the history of your language. And I really find it very sad
> > that such a beautiful and archaic language is spoiled with loanwords.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Toms Deimonds Barvidis
> > <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> >
> >> This issue seams to be already solved before I, a native Latvian
> speaker,
> >> had seen the thread :D
> >>
> >> Anyway, "ārā" is indeed a locative from an earlier "ārs", meaning "the
> >> outdoors", most definitely related to "āre", an
> >> open, cultivated land, thus probably also with "art" (to plough) and
> >> "arkls" (a plough), as well as Latin "arō" and
> >> English "ear" (not the body part, of course), I suppose.
> >>
> >> Nowadays it's usually perceived as an adverb, not a declined form of any
> >> noun, since "ārs" has fallen out of usage
> >> in this meaning; "ārs" is now used to mean an are, 100 square meters.
> >>
> >> "Laukā" is also a locative from "lauks", a field.
> >>
> >> The opposite concept "inside" is usually "iekšā"; seems like another
> >> locative. Some related words are "iekšas"
> >> (intestine) and "iekš", an archaic preposition meaning "in", usually
> used
> >> mocking the way Baltic Germans spoke
> >> Latvian and more increasingly with loaned words that can't be declined,
> >> though I find this rather ugly.
> >>
> >> Citējot "Nikolay Ivankov" <[log in to unmask]>:
> >>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:04 PM, MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Nikolay Ivankov <
> [log in to unmask]
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In Russian one uses "na ulitse" (on the street) or "na dvore" (in the
> >>>> yard)
> >>>>> for outdoors, sometimes also "za oknom" (beyond the window). In
> Latvian
> >>>> it
> >>>>> is either arā (outside) or laukā "in the field".
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "Arā" looks like a locative. What is the nominative and what does it
> >> mean?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> For me too, but I'm no champion it Latvian. There is no "aris" or
> "arus"
> >>> in the dictionalry, and the only meaning of "ars" is 100m2. Thuogh
> there
> >>> are particles "ar"="with" and "arī"="too". I can fancy that *arus may
> be
> >>> cognate with "agros", since "lauks" should be of the same origin as
> >> Russian
> >>> "lug" - "meadow".
> >>>
> >>> stevo
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Charlie Brickner <
> >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> It's 60° here in the Blue Ridge Mountains today and, as I was
> visiting
> >>>>> our
> >>>>>> shut-
> >>>>>> ins, I was enjoying the winter outdoors.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The thought occurred to me that you can't say "outdoors" unless your
> >>>>>> culture
> >>>>>> has doors!  If your conculture is so primitive as not to have doors,
> >>>> how
> >>>>>> do you
> >>>>>> express the concept of "outdoors" in your conlang?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Charlie
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>

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