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CONLANG  February 2012, Week 3

CONLANG February 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Outdoors

From:

Toms Deimonds Barvidis <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:01:27 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (148 lines)

I've never really tried to find anything for Lithuanian. I suppose such info could be used for Latvian at least to some 
degree, since there are not much sound changes involved in the split of Latvian and Lithuanian.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/50949/Baltic-languages/74884/Comparison-of-Lithuanian-and-Latvian - 
this page has got some basic description of the differences between Latvian and Lithuanian, the former generally 
considered more innovative, at least by those who are not of the Latvian-Sanskrit Superlanguage cult :D

-- 
Raungiga golvärdhänon.
Toms Deimonds Barvidis


Citējot MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>:
> Is Lithuanian material any more available than Latvian? To what degree can
> such Lithuanian material be used for Latvian?
> 
> stevo
> 
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 3:03 AM, Toms Deimonds Barvidis
> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> 
>> Nav par ko :)
>> 
>> It's pretty hard to find decent information on history of Latvian even
>> here, in Latvia. Most of the web-based
>> information is highly biased, emphasizing the similarities between Latvian
>> and Sanskrit to sometimes even
>> ridiculous degree while ignoring other IE languages altogether.
>> 
>> I sometimes surprises me how many Germanic loanwords Latvian has, when I
>> come to a realization that some
>> basic vocabulary unit is actually a loan. I think it's a little bit sad,
>> too, though I'm not in any way opposed to
>> borrowing, especially if the borrowing language doesn't have an
>> appropriate word. Anyway, the awesome amount of
>> German loans (I'm for from competent in Germanic linguistics, but I
>> believe the source language of most of the
>> loans to be Middle Low German) in Latvian (as well as French loans in
>> English) inspired me to do a loan-ful
>> conlang, Beringian.
>> 
>> Beringian has appeared in the list once or twice, I remember once
>> mentioning it because I was pretty proud of how I
>> made it sound and look like French, though the similarity has waned a
>> little bit since.
>> 
>> So, I don't know if it's been already discussed here on the list, but have
>> those of you who have conworlds (I think it's
>> necessary for this one :D ) ever put some work into making languages
>> borrow from each other? What are the
>> causes for borrowing? Higher prestige of the source language or simply the
>> borrowing culture is more backwards
>> and doesn't have the words for some concepts? How likely is it that the
>> institutions governing language have new
>> learned borrowings undergo some historical sound changes in order to make
>> them feel more natural?
>> 
>> 
>> Citējot "Nikolay Ivankov" <[log in to unmask]>:
>>> Liels paldies.
>>> 
>>> I really love how Latvian sounds, but being by no means native, I know
>>> nothing about the history of your language. And I really find it very sad
>>> that such a beautiful and archaic language is spoiled with loanwords.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Toms Deimonds Barvidis
>>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> This issue seams to be already solved before I, a native Latvian
>> speaker,
>>>> had seen the thread :D
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway, "ārā" is indeed a locative from an earlier "ārs", meaning "the
>>>> outdoors", most definitely related to "āre", an
>>>> open, cultivated land, thus probably also with "art" (to plough) and
>>>> "arkls" (a plough), as well as Latin "arō" and
>>>> English "ear" (not the body part, of course), I suppose.
>>>> 
>>>> Nowadays it's usually perceived as an adverb, not a declined form of any
>>>> noun, since "ārs" has fallen out of usage
>>>> in this meaning; "ārs" is now used to mean an are, 100 square meters.
>>>> 
>>>> "Laukā" is also a locative from "lauks", a field.
>>>> 
>>>> The opposite concept "inside" is usually "iekšā"; seems like another
>>>> locative. Some related words are "iekšas"
>>>> (intestine) and "iekš", an archaic preposition meaning "in", usually
>> used
>>>> mocking the way Baltic Germans spoke
>>>> Latvian and more increasingly with loaned words that can't be declined,
>>>> though I find this rather ugly.
>>>> 
>>>> Citējot "Nikolay Ivankov" <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:04 PM, MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Nikolay Ivankov <
>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In Russian one uses "na ulitse" (on the street) or "na dvore" (in the
>>>>>> yard)
>>>>>>> for outdoors, sometimes also "za oknom" (beyond the window). In
>> Latvian
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> is either arā (outside) or laukā "in the field".
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Arā" looks like a locative. What is the nominative and what does it
>>>> mean?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> For me too, but I'm no champion it Latvian. There is no "aris" or
>> "arus"
>>>>> in the dictionalry, and the only meaning of "ars" is 100m2. Thuogh
>> there
>>>>> are particles "ar"="with" and "arī"="too". I can fancy that *arus may
>> be
>>>>> cognate with "agros", since "lauks" should be of the same origin as
>>>> Russian
>>>>> "lug" - "meadow".
>>>>> 
>>>>> stevo
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Charlie Brickner <
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It's 60° here in the Blue Ridge Mountains today and, as I was
>> visiting
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> shut-
>>>>>>>> ins, I was enjoying the winter outdoors.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The thought occurred to me that you can't say "outdoors" unless your
>>>>>>>> culture
>>>>>>>> has doors!  If your conculture is so primitive as not to have doors,
>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> do you
>>>>>>>> express the concept of "outdoors" in your conlang?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>

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