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CONLANG  February 2012, Week 4

CONLANG February 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Nominals in Verb-heavy Languages

From:

Peter Cyrus <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:30:52 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (126 lines)

You could also consider that nouns are binominal conjunctions of structure
and function.  Your verb system is providing the function, so you need a
few roots for structures, maybe just a few more than a classifier system
would have,

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Jeffrey Daniel Rollin-Jones <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 27 Feb 2012, at 20:26, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Mev Pailom* is very verb-oriented; there are small classes of
> > prepositions, grammatical particles, and pronouns, and everything else
> > so far is regularly derived from basically verbal roots. This has
> > resulted in an explosion of vocabulary for abstract concepts and for
> > concrete things that are easily associated with activities (like bed =
> > "locative-sleep", hand = "instrument-do"), but it's leaving me without
> > an easy way to form specific concrete nouns; e.g., what activity goes
> > with "rock"? How does one distinguish "pen", "pencil", or "ink" from
> > "instrument-symbol-draw"?
>
> You could just have a verb that means "to rock" or "to be a rock", and
> then syntax or morphology which makes it clear when the lexeme is being
> used in the nominal sense, e.g., with verb-final word order, agreement, and
> non-pro-drop (and bearing in mind I don't know the phonology of your
> language):
>
> Di                 donaxi
> Di                 di-onax-i
>
> 3.SG.INAN 3.INAN-be.rock-PRES.REALIS.
>
> "It is a rock"
>
> With nominalisers:
>
> Onaxna              pha
>
> Onax-na            pha
>
> Be.rock.NOM.  there
>
> "The rock is there"
>
> With cases:
>
> Onaxł             tlalac
>
> Onax-ł           tlalac
>
> Be.rock-ABS be.white.NONPAST
>
> "The rock is white"
>
> With particles:
>
> Dičuhna uq onax tã
>
> Di-čuh-na               uq    onax tã
>
> 3.INAN-hit-3.ANIM with rock  the
>
> "He hit it with the rock"
>
> You could also do the same with tones, e.g.
>
> Onáx (mid tone, high tone) + low tone for the definite
> article/nominalisation/absolutive case => ònàx
>
> For the difference between "pen/pencil/ink" and draw/write, you could
> allow the verb "to be a pencil, etc.) to be transitive, meaning something
> like "it pencils [e.g. a cartoon], use compounds
> ("be.lead-be.writing.instrument" for "pencil" vs.
> "be.oil-be.writing.instrument" for "pen"), or use idiomatic derivational
> suffixes (e.g. be.pencil.NOM.AUG => pen, or be.pen.PEJ.ERG => pencil.
> >
> > I'm averse to just making up a -whole lot of basic nominal roots
> > because I don't want a) to shift the character of the language too
> > much or b) to impinge on the phonological space that's available for
> > the regular derivational system to grow into; e.g., if there's a
> > verbal root R-K and an unanalyzable noun "rok", the pattern -CoC- is
> > excluded from possible use in the derivational system, or else we risk
> > homophony, which eliminates potentially hundreds of possible derived
> > words for the sake of one basic root.
>
> Depending on what you're looking for, homophony could make your conlang
> more naturalistic. Also, you could disambiguate (some/all) homophones by
> derivation, compounding, and/or tone, so that
>
> pox - sickness/book
>
> vs.
>
> póx (high tone) - teepee
>
> vs.
>
> pôx (falling tone) - white.man
>
> or pox-wut (sickness/book-bad) - sickness
>
> vs.
>
> pox-połłi (sickness/book-pen) - book
> >
> > So, I am looking for various morphological strategies that can are
> > used for nominals in other verb-oriented languages.
> > For the pen/pencil/ink sort of problem, I was thinking of using
> > classifiers to distinguish different possible meanings of general
> > nouns; regarding which, does anyone know of a good large list of noun
> > classifiers / counters used in various languages?
> >
> > Aside from that, I don't really have many good ideas, so I'm way open
> > to suggestions, links to grammars of weird natlangs, etc.
> >
> > -l.
> >
> > *The current working name for my Romantic lang, for those who remember
> > prior updates on that project.
>
> HTH
>

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