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CONLANG  February 2012, Week 4

CONLANG February 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Orthographic and other constraints (was Re: opossum - opossa)

From:

Eugene Oh <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:51:45 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (71 lines)

In Britain we have all sorts of word-final single v's - chav, spiv etc

Eugene

Sent from my iPhone

On 24 Feb 2012, at 06:34, Eric Christopherson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Feb 23, 2012, at 8:48 PM, Alex Fink wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:22:43 -0800, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>>> --- On Thu, 2/23/12, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> Yeah, I realized I had made a mistake.
>>>>> I arrive.  I arrove.  I have arriven.
>>>>> The swan glides.  The swan glid.  The swan
>>>>> has glided? Glidded?
>>>> 
>>>> Wouldn't this be:
>>>> 
>>>> The swan glides. The swan glode. The swan has glidden.
>>> 
>>> That's the one I use (internal ideolect). Agree with Adam on arrive,
>>> arrove, arrivven.
>> 
>> The spelling is indisputably "arriven" with one V though!  Just like "driven
>> striven shriven ?swiven".  English spelling has a strong constraint against
>> *vv
> 
> Yeah. Words like _flivver_ and _savvy_ irk me.
> 
>> (just like against final *-v, and in the pre-Renaissance stratum against
>> *uv: thus we can't but spell "love" and "cove" and "move" as eye-rhymes.  
> 
> Oh, good point. That reminds me, but on the subject of phonetics rather than spelling: I was watching a programming screencast the other day and the guy talking kept pronouncing _native_ with a final [f]. I started wondering if maybe that's partly due to the lack of a final [v] in pre-French English words... but you'd think the French-derived words would have swamped that rule by now.
> 
> I've also been wondering lately if English has a slight dispreference for words ending in a single _g_, based on the existence of words like _Gregg_ with no etymological basis for the doubling. But there *are* plenty of words ending in single _g_...
> 
> Finally, it's pretty obvious English (and some other Germanic languages) disprefers final bare _k_ (and to a lesser extent, especially in the last few centuries, _c_). I used to play a MUD game that featured a valuable item called a "gold chunck"; for a long time I thought the spelling _chunck_ was some sort of joke, but lately I've been wondering if the game's author was merely extending the final _ck_ rule to positions after another consonant.
> 
> [Perhaps a gold chunck is really not a *chunk* at all, but a simulacrum of one -- sort of like how in the US you can legally label chicken wing-like things (but boneless and not necessarily made of wing meat) as _wyngz_ or _wiingz_, or more egregiously, _chick'n_ for a chicken-flavored vegetarian product. I've seen all of those spellings.
> 
> (And what's with the marketing spelling of _pak_ instead of _pack_?)
> 
>> If
>> you ask me, the regular spelling of the word meaning 'makeshift knife' /SIv/
>> is "shive").
> 
> I can't go along with that one -- it seems obvious that the vowel there would be /ai/; perhaps because it only has one syllable? But I can't think of a better rendering than those two spellings.
> 
>> 
>> As for "glide", I would totally never have realised "glid" was not the
>> standard past / ppt if it hadn't been mentioned.  Far too prone to
>> contamination with "slide".  
> 
> I didn't realize it either.
> 
> I know sometimes if I'm not quite sure of a past tense word, I will substitute the past progressive for it. But that isn't always semantically correct.
> 
>> 
>> But of course the whole strong verb system has shattered to smithereens in
>> modern English.  Where we once had seven cohesive classes, now we have
>> umpty-ump sui generis classes as in ths former class 3 verb the past has
>> overwritten the participle, but in tht one the participle has overwritten
>> the present, und so weiter.  It's all well and good to strengthen the weak,
>> but while we're at it let's put the discipline back in the strongs as well!
>> I ran, I have run, but I *rin*, etc.  Who's with me?
>> 
>> Alex

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