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CONLANG  February 2012, Week 4

CONLANG February 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Phonology Imitation

From:

Peter Collier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 01:06:05 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (95 lines)

I think which of the two different approaches (lexis-down / phonology-up) are going to work best for someone is going to depend on whether they are starting from scratch, or working out some kind of cut-and-shut job using a language A sound change body on a language B chassis,  a la Wenedyk, Brithenig etc. 

It will also depend on which aspect of the conlanging vice most floats your boat. For me personally, it's more about the process than the end product. I enjoy the whole diachronic sound change aspect, figuring out how I want a language to evolve, running changes and seeing what serendipity or catastrophe results. That means I am of necessity looking at phonology more than lexis. Some of the other projects we read about on here don't have a chronological aspect to them as such, they are more about using interesting, different or unusual features to craft more complete languages with broader vocabularies that can then be test-driven with translation exercises. For languages such as these, while phonology is still important, it is the lexical aspects that are to the fore and questions about whether that /f/ is [f], [p\] or [v_0] can be brushed over. 

P.


I recently presented a workshsop on language construction, and I took the first approach--I had the workshop participants come up with twenty or so "words" in their language and then reverse-engineered phonological inventories and syllable structure from that. I think it worked pretty well, though some of the participants were kinda stressed out about having to come up with twenty words spontaneously. After seeing what they came up with, I realized that one danger of this approach is that people who are linguistically naive tend to reproduce something like English. This is where the second method can come in handy. After creating a few words and distilling inventories and syllable phonotactics, you could add sounds that are "obviously" missing, and to refine the syllable canon and phonotactics.
But I am firmly of the opinion that the phonology should be intuitive, rather than planned--at least in its initial stages. All of the languages I have ever pursued beyond a simple one-page sketch started with a word or several words that I thought sounded Just Right. For Miapimoquitch, that word was [tɨβa]. For my current perpetually nascent project that word is [stubn̩]. It's been a lot of fun to try to imagine what kind of language would allow a word like [stubn̩] in itǃ

Dirk

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Peter Collier
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Broadly speaking there seem to be two different approaches to language 
> construction. One is to coin some vocabulary and then to look at what 
> you have and  "reverse-engineer" a language from it. The other is to 
> work at a phonological level rather than a lexical one, i.e. to work 
> out how the language is screwed together first and then see what it 
> leads to. By necessity, the "what-if" type conlangs - Brithenig and 
> the like - would have to be of the second type.
>
> My own project is of the latter type so I don't have any experience of 
> working the other way around, but logically  there must come a point 
> where things have to start getting a little more fixed and any new 
> coinings start to comply with words you have already created, 
> otherwise the thing is going to just keep on expanding to a ridiculously unwieldy state.
>
> As to making one language "feel" like another, it seems to me you need 
> several things. Firstly, you need to have similar phonologies and 
> phontactics. If you want something that sounds Germanic, you are going 
> to need more fricatives and afficates in your phonology, a larger 
> vowel inventory, and rules that allow for syllables with large 
> consonant clusters.
> If you are looking to make something Romanic you'd want to be having 
> more limited consonant clusters, fewer or no reduced vowels and so on.
>
> Secondly, the conlang's  grammar and syntax would need to be similar. 
> If you were trying to create a language  that felt like English, you 
> wouldn't want to have grammatical gender and adjectival agreements. If 
> you want something of a Finnish feel, you'd need to be thinking about 
> cases.
>
> Finally, orthography. To my mind this is the last thing you should 
> consider, not the first, as it has nothing at all to do with the 
> mechanics of the language. It is  just an arbitrary arrangement of 
> symbols for encoding the language in writing. However, that said, if 
> you are trying to mimic the feel of a language you need to mimic its 
> orthography. When you look at a Brithenig it appears at first glance 
> to be Welsh and that’s part of what makes it such a delight.
>
> So my suggestion would be to look at the language(s) you want to 
> emulate, determine what it is that gives them their "feel," and then 
> use those aspects to lay down some founding criteria for your 
> creation. Do that before you do anything else. Then it’s a question of 
> creating a language within those self-imposed constraints.
>
> P.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
> On Behalf Of Ian Spolarich
> Sent: 25 February 2012 03:56
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Phonology Imitation
>
> I distinctly remember a thread here or somewhere where the poster had 
> talked a bit about mimicking natural languages' phonologies in a 
> conlang. I can't seem to find the email, so I thought I'd ask here: 
> how does one truly make a conlang sound like another language or 
> specific phonology?
>
> The thing is, when *I* conlang, I don't usually think about how one 
> word will sound in context or what not, I usually think about what 
> phonemes I can use and what sounds good. For one of my langs, 
> "Csatau," I'm mimicking to an extent the Hungarian language--I have 
> done so fairly easily in the phonology inventory (as well as the 
> orthography, but really, who doesn't love the Hungarian alphabet? 
> Although it should be noted that there is a corresponding native 
> script and a script in another con-script made of Greek and Cyrillic 
> letters... it's a complex country.), but I'm not sure how to achieve 
> the overarching aesthetic "feel" of Hungarian.
>
> Also, besides making a conlang sound like I want it to sound, I tend 
> to have trouble pronouncing the language--not because of the phonology 
> but because of the sequence of sounds. For example, I had to change my 
> numbers (originally "ská elt vec fört tüks fausz sal sval dvan..." to 
> "ská elt föt tüks fau pes sval dvan") to make them easier to 
> pronounce. Anyway, does anyone have any good tips on achieving a 
> unified sound consistent across a whole language?
>
> -Ian Spolarich
>

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