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CONLANG  March 2012, Week 3

CONLANG March 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Orthographic Reform

From:

Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 19 Mar 2012 13:13:04 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (117 lines)

On 10 March 2012 16:46, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:28:38 -0700, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> [...]
>>The 'll' is taken from Welsh, and inspired the usage of double letters
>>for the rest of the digraphs. I really like the look of double
>>letters,
>
> You like double letters, you say?  And Welsh?  Well, here's an off-the-wall
> idea based on the Welsh values of <f>, <ff>:
>
> fricatives:
> <c> /D/ <cc> /T/   (<c> /D/ as in Fijian!)
> <f> /v/ <ff> /f/
> <y> /j\/ <yy> /C/
> <s> /z/ <ss> /s/
> <x> /Z/ <xx> /S/
> <l> /K\/ <ll> /K/
>
> and do something for /l/, whether <lh> or just an absurdity like <v> or
> whatever.

Oy. That has a certain aesthetic appeal, though I don't think I can
use it here. <yyyy> for /C:/ and all.

> (I must say <rr> for /K\/ displeases me; 'r' is not to 'l' as voiced is to
> voiceless, and I've grown a strong aversion to schemes where all the
> consonants are paired, by voice if one can and by something else if not.
> But de gustibus disputandum non est.)

It is a little bit off the wall, but since there is no letter for
unvoiced l, r seemed like the best available match. And the look has
since grown on me. Consonants aren't really paired in any meaningful
way in the language (at least, not yet), but I like organizing
phonemes that way when describing them. It makes the descriptions
tidier, I think.

On 10 March 2012 18:03, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> So, tell us more about the phonotactics.  What consonant clusters are
> forbidden?  Are there any consonants that don't cluster with anything
> else, or are fairly restricted in what they can combine witih?  Maybe
> that will give you an idea of what you can use to form unambiguous
> digraphs without giving up a basic letter which can still represent a
> consonant sound of its own, when it occurs between two vowels or at a
> word boundary?

Well, part of the problem is that I don't know what clusters are
prohibited yet. I won't for another few months, until i can develop
enough of a corpus to do a real analysis of how my fiancee actually
pronounces things. So far, all I know for sure is that /kt/ and /tk/
are disallowed in terminal positions, and that doesn't help much.
However, I have noticed that <q> /N/ is rarely used in the existing
dictionary, so turning it into a digraph would do the least to upset
the existing order.

Just about everything else about the language is being developed
as-needed, but that means the orthography has to be able to deal with
just about anything right out of the gate. If I wait until the
phonology is fully described and stable, we'll either be stuck trying
to write and read X-SAMPA on my cellphone in the meantime (not a
pleasant prospect), or finding out later that we need to make changes
to the orthography to reflect unanticipated developments in the
language. And I much prefer to make any changes now, before we get
"fluent" and overly accustomed to the existing orthography, rather
than having to unlearn and relearn.

On 12 March 2012 17:13, Larry Sulky <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> It also occurs to me that in many languages [h] is permitted only
> before a vowel, so a consonant cluster that BEGAN with <h> could only
> be seen as a digraph. Teonaht does this, at least with <ht> => [T].

Unfortunately, there is no /h/. I've ended up with a bit of a hybrid
solution where one sound (/N/) is written differently depending on
whether it is preceded by a consonant or a vowel, though, which is
sorta kinda a similar idea.

Thanks for the feedback, everybody. I generated a few different
possibilities and samples of how they would change the spellings of
common existing words, showed them all to my fiancee, and picked the
one she liked best. We ended up using <q> as the digraph-indicator,
with original <q> itself represented by a new digraph whenever it was
next to another consonant, but remaining just <q> next to vowels since
vowel symbols can't participate in consonant digraphs anyway. This was
most convenient since /N/ is not part of a voiced/unvoiced pair in the
original orthography, so turning it into a new digraph doesn't feel
like breaking symmetry the way using <h> would. This makes 'q' an
extremely common letter! And apostrophe is now totally unused, so
maybe it'll end up brought back in as actual punctuation mark for
something. The final result is as follows:

Original -> Reformed
q -> C+nq, V+q
dd -> dq
tt -> tq
rr -> rq
ll -> lq
' -> wq

Doubled consonants written as monographs are just doubled monographs,
so /r\r\/ = <rr>.
Doubled digraph consonants, however, can save space by just doubling
the 'q', so /K\K\/ = <rqq>, as contrasted with /r\K\/ = <rrq>

That results in sample words as follows:

/j\o.K\Ik/ <yorqik>
/br\eD/ <bredq>
/eN/ <eq>
/aK.Ki/ <alqqa>
/i?\m/ <iwqm> (this one caused the most debate, incidentally; other
options were <hq> and <yq> for /?\/, but <wq> won out on maximal
aesthetic acceptability and because /w/ belongs to the same consonants
series as /?\/)

-l.

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