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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  March 2012, Week 3

CONLANG March 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Tirelat vowels again

From:

Herman Miller <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 16 Mar 2012 20:48:39 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (73 lines)

On 3/14/2012 8:24 PM, Alex Fink wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:56:11 -0400, Herman Miller<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>
>> I'm beginning to realize that my Tirelat vowel reconstruction probably
>> isn't going to work out with /o/ and /u/ after labial consonants, /@/
>> and /y/ elsewhere. I can get it to work, but only if I assume that Early
>> Modern Tirelat (EMT) had lots of /wo/ and /wu/, but relatively few cases
>> of /wa/ /we/ /wi/. So I decided to do some counting and see if I could
>> come up with some element that could cause /o/ and /u/ to change to /@/
>> and /y/ that makes sense for this set of words.
>
> [I have reordered here.  I assume it was a native alphabetical order before?]

The list was sorted by the proportion of ë to o and y to u, so it goes 
from the consonants most likely to preserve /o/ and /u/ at the top to 
the consonants most associated with /ë/ and /y/ at the bottom. It did 
show a weak correlation with the bilabial stops, but not much of a pattern.

>> So, while it's apparent that bilabial consonants tend to preserve /o/
>> and /u/, so do the nasals /n/ and /N/, and the fricatives /s/ and /S/.
>> It looks rather like velar, palatal, and dental sounds are more likely
>> to change /o/ to /@/ (and to a lesser extent, /u/ to /y/).
>
> There are some such subtrends, but I look at that and the main trend I see
> is a three-to-one numerical advantage for /o u/ over /@ 1/ (in fact /u/ is
> slightly more and /o/ slightly less favoured than that).  That's bad news
> for any attempt to develop /o u/ as special-case outcomes of what normally
> develop to /@ 1/.

One problem is that /ë/ was a relatively late addition to Tirelat; 
another is that /y/ (which was originally [y] instead of [1]) had been 
removed from the language and re-added later. So one of the things I may 
want to do is go back to old documentation and restore instances of /y/ 
that changed to /ju/. I may also change some instances of /o/ to /ë/, 
and try to use /ë/ more in new vocabulary items.

The current explanation for the history of /ë/ and /y/ that I'm working 
out is that they were allophones of the front vowels /e/ and /i/ 
adjacent to sounds produced in the back of the throat (possibly uvular, 
pharyngeal, or epiglottal sounds of some kind, which were lost). So a 
word like /kwëna/ "to hear" would be < /kweHna/, where /H/ represents a 
sound that causes /e/ to be pronounced [@]. It could potentially be the 
same sound that alters /r/ and /l/ to the voiceless /ŕ/ and /ł/ in the 
modern language, as in the word "xyŕa" (from *xiHra?) But the problem 
with that is words like "lërvi": *lHervi would produce /łërvi/, and 
*leHrvi would produce /lëŕvi/. (Besides, *sl and *sr are looking more 
plausible as an origin for /ł/ and /ŕ/.)

> It does look like there's a constraint against */wo wu/, though.  And */dz@
> dz1/ in this set is a little remarkable too, though I can't offhand think of
> a good accounting for it (for one, the bias is definitely not shared with /ts/).
>
>> It's also possible that I'm going about this from the wrong direction,
>> and I should be trying to derive /@/ /y/ from /e/ and /i/.
>
> Possibly.  Or, one of the more common ways in which vowels are influenced is
> by other vowels, especially following ones, i.e. umlaut.  Is there any sign
> that an umlaut solution would be a good one?  How do sequential vowels in
> roots correlate?

That's something I can look into.

> Keep in mind also that /@/ and /1/ need not have developed by parallel
> courses.
>
> Alex

Yes, that's a good point. One option I've been considering is an 
original vowel system of /a/ /i/ /u/ /@/, with various splits and 
mergers that I haven't worked out. I don't have any particularly good 
reason for those four vowels except for symmetry, and the idea that /a/ 
/e/ /i/ /o/ /u/ is too ordinary of a vowel system.

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