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CONLANG  March 2012, Week 3

CONLANG March 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part VIII: Su rdé clinaiso n , Def inition and Main Nominal Use

From:

MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:32:31 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (94 lines)

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> --- On Tue, 3/20/12, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > > >> on verb phrases, e.g., 'How many "I'm coming"s do I have to say
> >
> > I'm curious to hear whether people would
> > really naturally say that sentence rather than "how many
> > times do I have to say 'I'm coming' before you hear it?"
>
> There are always multiple ways to say things in English. This is another
> way of saying more or less the same thing. Depends on what you want to
> emphasise and what spin you want to give the sentence.
>
> To me, the first one emphasises the quote itself; the second one emphasises
> the repetative nature of the situation.
>
> > > > Actually, I felt a bit wary of adding that
> > "bestest" example. "Better"
> > > and
> > > > "best" are irregular, so I'm not sure they are
> > felt as *inflections* of
> > > > "good", or just separate lexical items that happen
> > to work suppletively
> > > as
> > > > comparative and superlative of "good".
> > >
> > > Well, they're not irregular so much as suppletive.
> > >
> > >
> > Suppletion is just a subset of irregularity (by definition,
> > anything that
> > doesn't follow the rule branded as "regular" is "irregular".
>
> That I don't agree with. There is nothing at all irregular about go / went
> or good / better. "Goes" is the perfectly regular present 3s of go. "Went"
> is the perfectly regular 3s past of wend, and by suppletion, go. It's just
> that we've lost (or set aside somewhere) goed, which would be the normal
> non-suppletive form for go. (And continues to be in some regional lects.)
>

'Perfectly' regular past tense of "wend" would be "wended", not "went", no?
It's irregular, like send/sent.

stevo

>
> But I never liked the, in my opinion, poor choice of "irregular" vs.
> "regular" for describing these things. Clearly, there is nothing at all
> unusual, unexpected, different, odd or indeed "irregular" about this
> situation. I never call "sing" an irregular verb for the same reason.
> The vowel gradation is perfectly regular within its own system, so there
> is no logical reason why it should be called "irregular". It follows the
> rules, is not deviant.
>
> > Suppletion
> > doesn't follow the rule branded as "regular", thus it is
> > "irregular").
>
> Not at all. The rule is quite simply "for the adjective good, supplete
> gooder and goodest with better and best". Perfectly regular, no surprises!
>
> > Notice I used the word "suppletive" myself (well, the
> > derived adverb), so I
> > knew very well what I was talking about :) .
> >
> > But yeah, suppletion may be the key to understand why the
> > verbs "to better" and "to best" even exist.
>
> They exist simply because we can make verbs out of anything we like.
>
> > As I think of it, a true case of surd├ęclinaison
> > of this kind might be the verb "to lower". Is this
> > considered to be a verb
> > derived from the comparative of "low"? If so it might be a
> > better example than "bestest".
>
> As far as I know, we've simply verbed a comparative adjective here and
> made it into a causative verb -- to cause something to become lower (than
> something else). Probably because it takes too doggone long to say "I see
> they caused the high prices over at Schnellick and Wombatts to become lower
> than the prices were before." Much quicker to say "Look, Schnombatts
> lowered their prices."
>
> Why we say "lowered" and not "highered" would be a good bit of speculation!
> "Schnombatts lowered their prices, but it looks like Quomberts raised
> theirs" sort of thing.
>
> Padraic
>
> > Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
>

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