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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  March 2012, Week 3

CONLANG March 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part VIII: Su rdé clinaiso n , Def inition and Main Nominal Use

From:

Daniel Bowman <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:17:50 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (140 lines)

Granted.  It is definitely irregular but belongs to a certain class of
irregular verbs such as "slept", etc.  Anyway, perhaps I'm splitting hairs
(but, being a conlanger, I excel at that!)



2012/3/20 MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>

> But 'dreamt' is irregular, too. It doesn't end in "-ed".
>
> stevo
>
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Daniel Bowman <[log in to unmask]
> >wrote:
>
> > I feel like wend->went is similar to dream->dreamt.  This past tense of
> > dream is uncommon (archaic?) but I believe it is valid.
> >
> > 2012/3/20 MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> > >  On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- On Tue, 3/20/12, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <
> [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > >> on verb phrases, e.g., 'How many "I'm coming"s do I have to
> say
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm curious to hear whether people would
> > > > > really naturally say that sentence rather than "how many
> > > > > times do I have to say 'I'm coming' before you hear it?"
> > > >
> > > > There are always multiple ways to say things in English. This is
> > another
> > > > way of saying more or less the same thing. Depends on what you want
> to
> > > > emphasise and what spin you want to give the sentence.
> > > >
> > > > To me, the first one emphasises the quote itself; the second one
> > > emphasises
> > > > the repetative nature of the situation.
> > > >
> > > > > > > Actually, I felt a bit wary of adding that
> > > > > "bestest" example. "Better"
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > "best" are irregular, so I'm not sure they are
> > > > > felt as *inflections* of
> > > > > > > "good", or just separate lexical items that happen
> > > > > to work suppletively
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > comparative and superlative of "good".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, they're not irregular so much as suppletive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Suppletion is just a subset of irregularity (by definition,
> > > > > anything that
> > > > > doesn't follow the rule branded as "regular" is "irregular".
> > > >
> > > > That I don't agree with. There is nothing at all irregular about go /
> > > went
> > > > or good / better. "Goes" is the perfectly regular present 3s of go.
> > > "Went"
> > > > is the perfectly regular 3s past of wend, and by suppletion, go. It's
> > > just
> > > > that we've lost (or set aside somewhere) goed, which would be the
> > normal
> > > > non-suppletive form for go. (And continues to be in some regional
> > lects.)
> > > >
> > >
> > > 'Perfectly' regular past tense of "wend" would be "wended", not "went",
> > no?
> > > It's irregular, like send/sent.
> > >
> > > stevo
> > >
> > > >
> > > > But I never liked the, in my opinion, poor choice of "irregular" vs.
> > > > "regular" for describing these things. Clearly, there is nothing at
> all
> > > > unusual, unexpected, different, odd or indeed "irregular" about this
> > > > situation. I never call "sing" an irregular verb for the same reason.
> > > > The vowel gradation is perfectly regular within its own system, so
> > there
> > > > is no logical reason why it should be called "irregular". It follows
> > the
> > > > rules, is not deviant.
> > > >
> > > > > Suppletion
> > > > > doesn't follow the rule branded as "regular", thus it is
> > > > > "irregular").
> > > >
> > > > Not at all. The rule is quite simply "for the adjective good,
> supplete
> > > > gooder and goodest with better and best". Perfectly regular, no
> > > surprises!
> > > >
> > > > > Notice I used the word "suppletive" myself (well, the
> > > > > derived adverb), so I
> > > > > knew very well what I was talking about :) .
> > > > >
> > > > > But yeah, suppletion may be the key to understand why the
> > > > > verbs "to better" and "to best" even exist.
> > > >
> > > > They exist simply because we can make verbs out of anything we like.
> > > >
> > > > > As I think of it, a true case of surdéclinaison
> > > > > of this kind might be the verb "to lower". Is this
> > > > > considered to be a verb
> > > > > derived from the comparative of "low"? If so it might be a
> > > > > better example than "bestest".
> > > >
> > > > As far as I know, we've simply verbed a comparative adjective here
> and
> > > > made it into a causative verb -- to cause something to become lower
> > (than
> > > > something else). Probably because it takes too doggone long to say "I
> > see
> > > > they caused the high prices over at Schnellick and Wombatts to become
> > > lower
> > > > than the prices were before." Much quicker to say "Look, Schnombatts
> > > > lowered their prices."
> > > >
> > > > Why we say "lowered" and not "highered" would be a good bit of
> > > speculation!
> > > > "Schnombatts lowered their prices, but it looks like Quomberts raised
> > > > theirs" sort of thing.
> > > >
> > > > Padraic
> > > >
> > > > > Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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