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CONLANG  March 2012, Week 3

CONLANG March 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Superdeclension in Quenya? (and in Old Albic!) (was: New Blog Post: Moten Part VIII)

From:

Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:17:34 +0100

Content-Type:

Text/Plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

Text/Plain (57 lines)

Hallo conlangers!

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:49:52 -0000 A. da Mek wrote:

> > I'm mostly
> interested in knowing whether anyone has ever tried their hands at
> including surdÚclinaison in a conlang of theirs, and how it works in that
> conlang.
> 
> I became aware of the superinflection already in the Anthony Appleyard's 
> article
> http://tolklang.quettar.org/articles/Appleyard.Quenya
> 
>   [CASES OF CASES?]
>   In some languages the possessive genitive is often replaced by a 
> declinable adjectivizing suffix, e.g. Homeric Greek `-eios' instead of 
> `-oio', Russian `-ov' instead of `-a'; and early Latin `cujus cuja cujum' = 
> "whose", so the noun can be genitive and also in the case of the noun that 
> governs it.

Yes, possessive adjectives.  In most IE languages, only pronouns
form such adjectives, but in Slavic, nouns do so as well.  Greek
apparently also (I didn't know that).

> Greek uses genitive instead of the usual case with "to" and "in" 
> to make forms with ellipsis like `en Heeraas' = "in Hera's (temple)", `eis 
> Priamoio' = "into Priam's (house)"; c.f. English "to John's".

So English is not alone with such constructions as "to John's".
So Greek has them, too.  My conlang Old Albic also has such
forms, e.g. _M°rdindosan_ 'M°rdindo-GEN-ALL' = "to M°rdindo's".
Old Albic has regular suffixaufnahme as well, e.g. _cathan
M°rdindosan_ 'house-ALL M.-GEN-ALL' = "to M.'s house".

>       Are these 
> possible in Quenya? If `omientie-lva-sse' = "at our meeting" is used much, 
> then (since gen. `elva' = "(something of) ours") `elvasse' = "at that 
> object/event of ours" is a likely abbreviation, being in effect allative of 
> genitive of `elve'. Likewise `Vardo tellumassen' = "in Varda's halls", if 
> used much, may get shortened in usage to `Vardo-ssen' = "in Varda's", being 
> locative pl. of genitive sg. of `Varda'.
> 
> Other cases than genitive may be treated this way: `Nuumenoore-llo 
> (atan)-in' = "for the (men) [who came] from Nuumenor" > `Nuumenoore-llo-in' 
> (dat.pl of abl.sg); `osto-sse (atan)-ion' = "of the (men) in the town" > 
> `osto-ss-ion' (gen.pl. of loc.sg.); `ta na er selda-in anna-ron' > `ta na er 
> selda-in-ion' = "that's one of the (presents) for the children" (gen.pl. of 
> dat.pl.).

That sounds interesting, but are such forms attested in Tolkien's
corpus, or is Mr. Appleyard speculating into the blue here?

--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bŕsel asa ╩m, a ╩m atha cvanthal a cvanth atha ╩mel." - SiM 1:1

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