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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  March 2012, Week 4

CONLANG March 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Sutton SignWriting (Was: Written Form of American Sign Language (ASL))

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 28 Mar 2012 13:58:13 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (83 lines)

--- On Wed, 3/28/12, Arthaey Angosii <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> The most popular and vocal arguments Deaf people had against
> written ASL were:
> 
> - ASL is already visual; it doesn't need another visual
> form

This makes sense, though it could be argued that the two are different
kinds of visuality. One is ephemeral and fleeting -- it happens in the
moment and is gone. The other stands as a record that can be referred to
in future in the same way spoken language is fleeting but becomes immortal
via writing.

> - when Deaf people want to write, they write in English;
> they don't want or need to learn yet another writing system

Makes sense also, and I think this is the strongest argument against SW or
any similar scheme -- it seems like this SW is to ASL what the IPA is to
English. That is, trying to record ever more detailed nuances of a 
language. 

Assuming the ASL signer lso knows how to read and write English, this
makes good sense. Why learn a special written form of ASL when you've
already got command of a widely known written language?

> And there were many other arguments too:
> 
> - ASL has never been a written language and never will be
> 
> - ASL should only be "broken down in writing for linguistics
> purposes" but not for communication

A lot of these "arguments" sound like extreme parochialism -- as if they
fear the hearing world will learn to read their language and invade their
space or as if they wish to distance themselves from everyone else as far
as they may.

> - video is the appropriate recording medium, not writing

This one actually makes a lot of sense. ASL s a spatial language. I would
think the optimum way of fully 'encoding' the signed language is simply
to record the signer while she's signing and leave it at that.

Of course, the same exact thing can be said of spoken language -- how many
times have we here (or anywhere else online) gotten into a tiff over the
lack of visual and tonal clues as to irony, humor, etc.? Clearly, the 
optimal way to 'encode' any spoken language is also to simply record the 
speaker while she's talking.

Writing, whether the language is aural or visual, is a compromise at best.

> - writing is what hearing people do; signing is what deaf
> people do

No -- speking is what hearing people do. Anyone, hearing, deaf or blind,
can write.

> - ASL is too complex to be able to be written down; you
> would lose too much nuance

Such haughtiness! But the very same can be said of spoken language, yet we 
do well enough in writing it down. It is by no means the perfect of
capturing every nuance (succinctly, anyway), but it's certainly better
than nothing at all.

> - no one uses written ASL, so no one has any motivation to
> learn it (chicken & egg)
> 
> No Deaf person on the forum objected to any of the above
> arguments; they merely piled on their own addition reasons why they
> didn't need or want a written form of ASL. 

Very interesting indeed. For a broad community to be s against something
as innocuous as a system of writing leads me to think that Adam is right
about the politicisation of the deaf community and their language. Out of
all these more or less half-baked gripes, I can only see one that actually
makes sense and addresses what is being discussed.

> AA

Padraic

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